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Hello
I am researching William Smith, born Warrington according to the 1911 census. He was married to Harriet Smith and lived 5 George St, Leigh Lancs. He was born c. 1868. Occupation HAWKER. I can find his Wife Harriet and 2 kids in 1901 living 8 Brown St, Leigh, but cannot find him anywhere as she is shown as "head". Can anyone help? Also I have the mystery of Harriet Smith having a Son, John William WARBURTON in 1901 aged 7,but by 1911 she has given him the name John William Smith (aged 18). I believe this is true as John William was my Great Granddad and everything matches the wedding cert I have for him where he has finally named himself as a Warburton. I am puzzled why he got the name WARBURTON and not Smith? In 1901 his Mum Harriet has a Brother living with her named Thomas Warburton, but that is my only connection as I cannt find anything on BMD. If anyone can shed some light I would be extremely grateful. Thankyou. Lorraine

for reference

1901 -

9 SMITH, Harriet Head Married F 26 1875 Rag Collector
Warrington
Lancashire VIEW
9 WARBURTON, John W Son M 7 1894
Warrington
Lancashire VIEW
9 SMITH, Richard Son M 5 1896
Warrington
Lancashire VIEW
9 SMITH, David D Son M 2 1899
Leigh
Lancashire VIEW
9 RILEY, Sarah Boarder Widow F 59 1842 Rag Collector
Warrington
Lancashire VIEW
9 WARBURTON, Thomas Brother Married M 34 1867 Rag Collector
Warrington
Lancashire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
3592 Folio:
5 Page:
1

Registration District:
Leigh Sub District:
Leigh Enumeration District:
1 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Leigh St Mary

Civil Parish:
Leigh Municipal Borough:
Address:
8, Brown Street, Leigh County:
Lancashire



Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smith William Warrington 8c 257
Warburton Harriet Warrington 8c 257

Just to place them:

MITH, William Head Married M 43 1868 Hawker Lancs Warrington VIEW
SMITH, Harriet Wife Married
18 years F 37 1874 Hawker Lancs Warrington VIEW
SMITH, John William Son Single M 18 1893 Assists Father Lancs Leigh VIEW
SMITH, Richard Son Single M 16 1895 Lancs Leigh VIEW
SMITH, David Son Single M 13 1898 Lancs Leigh VIEW
SMITH, Annie Daughter F 6 1905 School Lancs Leigh VIEW
SMITH, Harriet Daughter F 3 1908 Lancs Leigh VIEW
SMITH, Sarah Ellen Daughter F 0 1911 Lancs Leigh VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
23212 Reference:
RG14PN23212 RG78PN1357 RD460 SD3 ED4 SN286

Registration District:
Leigh Sub District:
Leigh Enumeration District:
4 Parish:
Leigh

Address:
5 George Street Leigh County:
Lancashire

The wedding cert I obtained shows John William Warburton residing at 5 George St Leigh lancs in 1913 (1st Feb)..aged 21.and one wedding witness was Richard Smith which is how I placed him I also knew he was a scrap dealer....

cheers

perhaps he was born before Harriet married -


Births Sep 1892 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Warburton John Warrington 8c 274

thank you
So it could be the "brother" Thomas Warburton living with Harriet in 1901 could have been John Williams Uncle or even the Dad?
What do you think?

cheers

Thomas Warburton on the 1901 census is Harriet's brother and would be John William's uncle.


His relationship to the head of the household (Harriet) is brother.

Shot in the dark: EDIT oops, see it's above!!

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
Baker William Warrington 8c 257
Clowes Eliza Warrington 8c 257
Smith William Warrington 8c 257
Warburton Harriet Warrington 8c 257

Possible??

Births Sep 1873 (>99%)
WARBURTON Harriet Warrington 8c 196

yeah I was just wandering if it was misrecorded for a reason. If not, it must be Thomas' relative who was the Father of John William - it is strange why I cannot find anything. And where could Harriets Husband William Smith have disappeared to prior to the 1911 census as it says she had been married to him for 18years!

: )

Thankyou BrummieJan
This one looks very promising. I have done searches for a Harriet Warburton but found nothing (I am very new at this)...so it is feasible Harriet had the child out of wedlock, then got married to William Smith and eventually gave him his name.

Choccy has found a birth in 1892 for John Warburton in Warrington. is this the only one around this date? If so, any idea where I could obtain the birth cert?

Many many thanks to all : )

How did in work in those days, if the Mother wasn't married, did she give the child her surname? My thinking ...would it be possible for William Smith to be John Williams real Dad but she just wasn't married. Or would she have been forced to get married ASAP if she intended on staying with the Father?

If there was no father around the child would get her surname. But many children were given father's name even if the parents weren't married.
Jan

so it seems John W may not have been William Smiths then seeing as he got Warburton and the rest Smith...he must have just brought him up and gave him his name Smith in 1911 on the census. : )
So do we know where William Smith could have gone to on the 1901 census and prior? I cannot find him??

: )

I know your priority was to find William, and I have had a look but can't pin him down, with such a common name it will be tricky as you know.
I assume they were a travelling family? he might have been away working and could have been anywhere.
Jan

to be honest , solvinng the mystery, or getting closer to John Williams WARBURTON name has been very important and I am very pleased and grateful for what has been unravelled in such a short space of time tonight. Yes it would be interesting where JW's Dad was but as you say, he could be anywhere ... he was probaly selling stuff somewhere lol. I notice on the cenus printout I have that Harriet is a Hawker in 1911 and it says "Rays" industry...do you know what that means?
I also need to search now to see if I can find Harriet and Brother Thomas on any cenus : /

thank you

Can't make out what "Rays" actually says!
Jan

wonder if it says "rags"?

Good thinking as she is a rag collector previously. The writing is a bit messy generally so I would say that's it.
Jan

Cool : )
I have had a quick squiz and seen a possible Harriet lodging aged 18 ...pity I couldn't pinn her down livign with her Brother at any point : (

Well thanks to your help and searches I applied for and received the marriage cert for Harriet Warburton to William Smith in 1894...it proved to be right as the witness was Thomas Warburton (Who was listed as Harriets Brother on a census). I also applied for Son, John Warburton Birth cert 1892 (based upon her having him out of wedlock), but sadly this is not the right one : ( Mother is Elizabeth. Based on census, and John William Warburtons marriage cert, he could have been born 1892, 93 or 94! Can anyone help maybe find another possibility please for John William Warburton born Warrington? Harriet got married Jan 1894 and she named her Son Warburton, so I guess 1893 before the wedding to Mr Smith?

thank you