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This is wonderful, Anthony! How difficult for you to have to wait now.

The result will be even better because of the hard work you've had tracking them down. Persistence pays.

Thanks for the pm, much appreciated, although I keep an eye on your thread but just haven't had anything to contribute.

Ozi

Pleased to hear you've had some good news, bet you can't wait for his return.

Christine

That's wonderful! Thanks for the message too. I do like to keep an eye on this thread as you know!
Jan

Woo-Hoo. Fantastic. That's great news Tony.
Can't wait for his return to give you more details.

Sorry should have posted this before, thank you Victoria for the information about the family at 5 Court 6 Catherine Street

Hooray, another breakthrough.
I have received a positive response from someone, he says that he is just off on holiday and will reply on return with more details.
He says that what I said in the messages I sent out this morning about William being my dad's half brother, that he was married in 1936 and had 3 children does seem correct since his mother was 1 of 3 and gives their names, they are the names I know to be Williams children.
He also says that his mom had mentioned an Auntie Ivy ? (my mum) Smethwick way ? (that's where we lived)
So there are good days

Good Morning Everyone and you thought I'd given up!

The Ellen Clarke marriage certificate has finally arrived: -
No: 139
When Married: 23 Sept 1905
Names & Surnames: James Wheatley & Ellen Clarke
Ages: 21 & 21
Condition: Batchelor & Spinster
Rank or Profession: Striker & ---
Residence at time of marriage: 87 & 97 Barncroft St West Bromwich
Fathers Names & Surnames: Benjamin Wheatley and John Clarke
Rank or Profession of Fathers: ?Puddler & Ironworker

So it looks like this isn't my Ellen, odd coincidence that the father's name is John Clarke though. The Wheatley name isn't familiar neither are the addresses nor is this John Clarke's occupation

If all you regular volunteer helpers would like to keep a record as this is one where the male name isn't displayed when you do a search

As I know the details I have for Williams marriage are correct, I am now waiting for a copy of the marriage cert hoping that his age, address and occupation together with his father's name and occupation will help me. Despatch date is 29th Aug so another long wait.

In the meantime since discovering that the William Clarke born 1904 in West Bromwich wasn't my William I searched other GR family trees for a William born 1913. Only this morning I sent some messages out, so fingers crossed they might be able to help me.

Still waiting for marriage cert for Ellen Clarke, 1905 West Brom. There was a lot of info yesterday, my brain simply wouldn't absorb it, overload? I will read through it all again today

Hi Astra
I tend to agree with you on this one as you've probably read further back, if mind numbness hadn't set in before you got to the end. I've sent for copy of his marriage cert the date of which i know to be correct so for the moment I'm going to wait until that arrives before I send for anything else.
Many, many thanks for helping me.

I know this birth has been posted before but I do firmly believe that this is the one you should be looking at. There is a death registration for him too.

William Clarke
Year of Registration: 1913
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's Maiden Name: Clarke
District: West Bromwich
County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6b
Page: 1507


William Clarke
Birth Date: 21 Sep 1913
Death Registration Month/Year: Dec 1995
Age at death (estimated): 82
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Register number: C2B
District and Subdistrict: 0611C
Entry number: 259

News - the birth certificate for William Clarke 1904 Aston was the wrong William, mother was Louisa, probably a relative though.
More info re William from brother in Australia: -
he can remember collecting William for Dad's funeral (1982), he was retired then and in a wheelchair, no longer living with Muriel and possibly even re-married, he was still alive for Mum's funeral in 1987.
His son William J (known to us as Billy) born1937 Birmingham worked for Post Office Telephones then he did his 2 years National Service in the Royal Signals possibly 1955/56/57 before re-joining the PO Telephone Company or whatever it was called in those days. Does anyone interested in more recent military history know if you can search for someone this way? I was thinking he would have had to give a next of kin and a home address like the Thomas Clarke a few pages back.
When pushed (all this searching is turning me into a bully) my brother says he thinks William was younger than Dad.
I don't want everyone to think I'm sitting back and letting you do all the work because I am trying, I really am

Good Morning People
It's a pity we're 2 hours ahead here, looks like I missed a lot of activity overnight, don't you ever sleep?
I've just logged on this morning, I am going out but will try to log on later.

I can say to Vanessa that yes you are right, John Babbington born London, living with Helen in Ecc B in 1901 was living in Birmingham in 1871 age 7 at 140 Clifton Rd Aston, Church Aston and again in 1881 at Bishopsgate Street but the ages of mum and dad were really odd, if you take a look at Page 11 my post on 18th Aug asking for 'Help!' I'd managed to find these. Christopher is missing in 1881, he was only 5 in 1871, I can't find a death but I expect he was staying somewhere else - they had 'sleep-overs' even in those days, I just wish they wouldn't have done them on the night of a census!
John turns up again on 1891 census at 54 Ryder Street 'married' to Elizabeth (can't find marriage) living with Elizabeth Carringon m-in-law, Joseph brother age 22, Christopher Babington age 1 a boarder (seems odd) and Thomas Carrington age 20 also a boarder.
John's name is spelt Babbington in 1871, then Babington in 1881, 1891 and on his death record in 1901, if this is him, I expect you will say don't worry about the spelling but it sometimes makes searching for a novice like me very difficult especially on GR.

There has been a lot posted on here so sorry if this is duplicate (let me know & I will delete) but the John Babbington born London, living with Helen in Ecclesall Bierlow, was living in Birmingham in 1881! And I am almost certain there is mention of Bishopsgate St???

John BABINGTON Head M Male 42 Scotland Journeyman Bricklayer
Jane BABINGTON Wife M Female 37 London St Pancras, London, Middlesex, England
John BABINGTON Son U Male 16 London Hampstead, London, Middlesex, England Street Orderly Tender (Scay)
Edward BABINGTON Son Male 13 Norwood, Surrey, England Scholar
Joseph BABINGTON Son Male 11 Norwood, Surrey, England Scholar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling Bishopsgate St Court 20 No 1
Census Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Family History Library Film 1341712
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2977 / 119
Page Number 36

Ness

And in 1881:
Caroline KIRBY Head W Female 36 Birmingham, Pearl Polisher
Thomas Jones KIRBY Son Male 10 Birmingham, Scholar
Rose KIRBY Daur Female 12 Birmingham, Scholar
Ellen KIRBY Daur Female 8 Birmingham, Scholar
Fanney PARKER Lodger W Female 50 Birmingham, Gard Chain Worker
William PARKER Son U Male 17 Birmingham, Dealer Coal Yard
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling Back Of 18 Berners St
Census Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Family History Library Film 1341716
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2998 / 68
Page Number 31

Can this help rule them out?? Confirm they are the right ones?

Ness

For Ref, this is the family living with Sampson in 1871:

KIRBY, Caroline 1845 26 F Birmingham
KIRBY, Charles 1854 17 M Birmingham
KIRBY, Harry 1863 8 M Birmingham
KIRBY, Jane 1856 15 F Birmingham
KIRBY, Robert 1869 2 M Birmingham
KIRBY, Thomas J 1871 0 M Birmingham

There is obviously more than one family here - can anyone see relationships?

This would appear to be Sampsons death - ties up with the christening:

Deaths Jun 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KIRBY Sampson 46 Birmingham 6d 61

Ness

Mom & dads marriage?

Marriages Jun 1865 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allen Howard W.Bromwich 6b 786
Cotterell Caroline Amelia W. Bromwich 6b 786
>>>Jones Caroline W. Bromwich 6b 786
>>>Kirby Sampson W. Bromwich 6b 786

Ness

Is this Ellen's father?

SAMPSON KIRBY Pedigree
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s): Birth: 13 MAY 1832
Christening: 11 JUN 1832 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JOHN KIRBY Family
Mother: JANE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

There is/was a St Phillips church in Aston, Birmingahm. Many districts at the time come under Aston - at the time covered a huge area!

Ness

Just picking up bits - this birth would tie in with the Cyrus Kirby Vanessa picked up:

Births Mar 1873 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kirby Cyrus Thomas Birmingham 6d 213

Maybe worth keeping to one side for now?

Vanessa 2
(will put Ness if any more posts to avoid confusion lol)

Have had a look up & down Catherine St (it's a bit chaotic, I wonder if I am seeing all of it) and there are is a small Clarke family living at 5 court something:

Edward R. 33 Roof slater b. Nechells
Elizabeth 28 b. Aston
Edward 9 born Aston.

If you go to the family that Victoria found on Ancestry (easy to find with that name!) the Edwardses are on page 39.

Jan