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Just to add to that.
George Carrington´s 1st wife was called Mary Ann.
She was mother of Louisa abt 1846,Emily abt 1851 & Mary Ann abt 1856. She died 3rd quarter 1856.
Looks like George re married 4th quarter 1856 to Emma Chadd in West Bromwich. No point in hanging about obviously.
No idea why Caroline Eliza was born Sheffield but her baptism is on familysearch.

Tony.
How about this one in 1871
116 Brearley St West
George Carrington H M Button Manufacturer b Handsworth
Emma Carrington Wife
Emily Carrington d Unm 18 pearl button maker
Mary Ann Carrington d unm 13 seal & key maker
Elizabeth Carrington d unm 11 B Sheffield (reg as Caroline Eliza)
Jane Carrington d unm 9 (reg as Sarah Jane)
Maria Carrington d unm 8
George Carrington s unm 6
Helen Carrington d unm 2
Arthur Carrington s unm 1
Hansell (should be Harriet) Carrington d unm 1month
Think they are George Carrington & Emma Chadd marr 4th quarter 1856
Emma died 1st quarter 1874.
Hardly surprising after that lot!!
Marion

1861 Census at 66 Dartmouth Street, Birmingham, this looks awfully like our Elizabeth, as you say why do they complicate things so much? Why if you are named Elizabeth would you call your one daughter Elizabeth and then 5 years later call your younger one Lizzie?

William Corrington
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth Corrington
Gender: Male
Where born: Wragby, Lincolnshire, England

Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Duddeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 109
Household Members: Name Age
William Corrington 39
Elizabeth Corrington 34
Elizabeth Corrington 5
Lizzie Corrington 1
Ellen Rouse 23
Thomas Mantle 50
Susannah Mantle 52
William Good 28
William Corrington 7days

On Ancestry an tree I've seen Elizabeth Carrington/Feeney as Elizabeth Lawrence but not managed to find birth or marriage to William yet.

Hi Marion I knew about Babington Rd it's in Handsworth.

I can't seem to find what happened to Christopher Snr. I've tried deaths and military so far and various spellings of surname, it doesn't help that mum & daughter were on a jolly in Birmingham the night of the 1901 census

Hi Tony.
Thanks for that. Every little bit of info helps to build the picture.
You may know this already, but I was browsing an area map on FamilyTreemaker yesterday & noticed that there is a Babington Road not far from Niniveh Road . Not sure whether it would be classed as Handsworth or Hockley & can´t put my hand on my A-Z to check.
Marion

Hi Marion
You said you couldn't find either of the Christophers in 1901 (this might have been on a pm), here's Christopher Junior in 1911 & 1916 so assume he was away in 1901: -

Name Christopher Babington
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender
Age 20 Years
Estimated Year of Birth 1891
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Worcester
Military Rank Driver 82nd Battery R F A
Institution Name 82 Nd Battery Royal Field Artillery
Institution Description 82nd Battery Royal Field Artillery, Kirkee, India
Enumerator Information
Address Kirkee India
Town Kirkee India
Inhabited Y
Reference RG14PN34997 RD641 SD22 ED21 SN9999
Administrative County Overseas Military
Enumeration District 21


Name: Christopher Babbington
Birth Place: Worcester
Death Date: 31 Oct 1916
Death Location: Turkey
Enlistment Location: Bristol, Glos.
Rank: DVR.
Regiment: Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery
Number: 56038
Type of Casualty: Died of wounds
Theatre of War: Balkan Theatre

The theory behind the username is that I know my own father, but with some of the things that get unearthed, you can never be too sure.
Your family is a bit like trying to do a complicated jigsaw without the picture, but I have no doubt you will get there in the end
Trying to work from abroad isn´t easy as I know to my cost. Oh for the days when I could just pop into Birmingham Central Library,but then I didn´t have the sunshine (or the time when I was working)
Marion

Hi Wisechild (what a lovely user name)
More pieces for the vastly expanding jigsaw, much appreciate your help

Hi Anthony.
If Elizabeth Babbington was actually bapt Caroline Eliza Carrington have found a death which could be her Caroline Babbington 1st quarter 1897 Birmingham b circ 1864. This means that both John & Ellen were widowed when & if they ever married.
Incidentally, if Caroline Eliza & Elizabeth are one & the same which I suspect they are, Her father George Carrington had been married before.
Marion

Good Morning
Sorry this is somewhat lengthy but I hope you will find it interesting and useful. We now have some more info which leads us to believe that Ellen may have been married 4 times, it's from a website that explains how birth certificates were supposed to be completed and what info went into what column, from 1837 to 1969: -

Of column 4 - Name and Surname of the Father "this column should only be completed if the childs parents were married to each other. If this column is blank the mother was not married to the childs father, from 1875 it was possible for both parents who were not married to each other to be joint informants and then the fathers name will be entered into this column but, both parents would sign the informant section"

All the certificates we have show the fathers name and only one informant, that of the mother

Of column 5 - Name & Surname of Mother - "an unmarried woman will be shown as eg.Mary Smith. a married woman will be shown as eg. Mary Brown formerly Smith. if she has previously been widowed and remarried she will be eg. Mary Brown late Jones formerly Smith. If she has not been married but is using a different surname (for example her partners) she would be shown as eg. Mary Smith otherwise Green"

If we look at the birth certificate Lilian Clarke - Ellen is shown as Ellen Clarke late Babbington formerly Kirby (though of course that should be Clarke and they have entered her middle name and not her surname) and the fathers name of John Clarke is shown, this suggests Ellen is married to John Clarke by May 1903 but had been married to a Babbington, who was by that time deceased, as it says she was 'late babbington'.

This also means of course that Ellen Jane and Rosie/Rose May had a different Babbington father to that of Ernest as he had died well before Ernest was born, that is if we are looking at the correct person being the father of Ellen & Rosie, the death cert we are waiting for should confirm this. So Ellen had been the wife of a John Babbington then an Ernest Babbington in later years, Ernest could possibbly have been related to John perhaps a cousin or something.

On Rosie/Rose May's certificate it shows Ellen as Ellen Babbington formerly Clarke - so she must have been Mrs John Babbington previously.

Of column 6 -Occupation of Father it states " if the father died before the child was born it will state deceased after the occupation of the father".

Of column 7 " the informant can be just the mother, just the father (but only if he is married to the mother), the owner of an institution eg.workhouse master or hospital matron, this would usually be the person in charge of the child if the mother died in childbirth"

Of column 10 it states that "this should be blank unless the name of the child changes i.e. if the child was given different names between the birth being recorded and the child being christened column 10 would be filled in after the christening.

Finally, as the other columns are pretty self explanetary, this is quite interesting - of column 2 it says " common right through to the early 20th century was the use of a family surname as a 2nd given name, frequently it was the mothers or grandmothers maiden name" as with the name Ellen Kirby Clarke

All really informative and interesting, we just have to remember that there were guidelines for certificates and for censuses and we all know how deceptive the censuses info can be.

Now down to lots more hard work....

Gosh Marion
What a lot of info, you must have spent a lot of time to find all this for which I thank you much, it will be very useful.
I spent quite a bit of time looking into John & Elizabeth Carrington and just couldn't get to the bottom of it. Looking at the 1891 census I assumed that his wife Elizabeth must have had the maiden name Carrington because one of the other members of the household was his mother-in-law who's name was Carrington, easy - or so I thought. From memory I don't think her maiden name was Carrington but without looking at all my notes/scribbles of which there is now a large pile I can't be sure. I think I decided to put it on one side and do something else planning to come back to it at a later date.

Hi Anthony.
have had a look at the 1891 for John / Elizabeth Babbington which shows her mother as Elizabeth Carrington. In fact she was Elizabeth Feeney, having married Martin Feeney 1st quarter 1871. They had a son Patrick Feeney. On 1871 census Elizabeth (Lizzie) Carrrington is with them aged 12 & a William H Carrington aged 10. 15 Thomas Street
However I´m not sure about this because the 1871 census shows Elizabeth as daughter of George Carrington & Emma (not Elizabeth),born 1860 in Sheffield. making her much older,but could be a clue to the Sheffield link.
This family were at 116 Brearley St B´ham in 1871.
George Carrington marr Emma Chadd . Emma died 1st quarter 1874 Bham
Found that Elizabeth, b Sheffield was actually registered as Caroline Eliza.
Why did they have to complicate things?
I did notice in 1891 John´s occupation is file grinder which could explain the move to Sheffield.
More food for thought. Am beginning to think we are looking at 2 different families.....maybe cousins....who gave their children the same names,as was very common in those days.
The best of luck to you.
Marion

Ooops! Someone (mentioning no names) ordered the birth cert for William Clarke but, unfortunately being very new to all this the unnamed person asked for cert for William John Clarke born 1913 . After waiting all this time there has been an email from the GRO offering a refund, you'd have thought they might've asked for confirmation of the name wouldn't you?
Oh well, it will be ordered again but I hope the despatch date will be this side of Christmas!

Good Morning, another week arrives, lets see what we discover

Still waiting for 3 certificates, will keep you all informed

Hi Ozi, thanks for the encouragement, I feel that I have to go on and maybe someone will unearth something.

I have a perfect example, you know that I found my dad's halfsisters granddaughter well, she has been searching for years for a cousin who's parents emigrated to Australia, they came back to Birmingham but he stayed and he and his wife have had 3 children since.. She lost touch with them and only yesterday my nephew in Australia found an address and a telephone number for them. As you can imagine she is "chuffed to bits".

So if I hadn't joined GR & Ancestry I wouldn't have found her etc etc

Birth cert - if a mistake has been made and this is looking very likely there is nothing you can do. The registry office won't have any more information, and they won't change it.

Long thread - I agree with others, don't start a new one. It is amazing how people will read a long thread because they're fascinated with the story of the search. Also if there are Babbington descendants out there, like you, they will read everything! If you feel inclined every so many pages you could put in a little summary - the story so far ...., type of thing.

Ozi

Hi Vanessa, thought you'd be back at work by now, feel sorry for you and realise that you have less time to give. Yes, it's the John Babington death cert we're waiting for now, despatch date 27 Sep
Much appreciate your suppor

Edit........ Sorry slight error above, my cousin is waiting for the birth certificate for William Clarke which was due to be despatched on 27th Sept but only yesterday he mailed to say that he'd mistakenly asked for William John Clarke so he doesn't know what will happen, he thinks that he might get a wrong cert ot a refund, I don't know.

We're waiting for the death certs for Ellen Kirby Clarke & John Thomas M Babington so I expect they'll be a while coming.

Hi Anthony, just edited my last post as I thought I might have sounded a bit abrupt. Truth was I had to "deal" with my daughters !!

Is it now the John Babington death cert you are waiting for ? Can't remember without checking if there was another one due end of Sept ?

Back at work - boohoo --so less time to search and post but hanging on with you.

best wishes

Vanessa

Thanks Vanessa, I'm not a quitter so I'll keep trying

Hi Anthony, I have still been following your updates and am very pleased you are making significant progress with the Babington/ Clarkes.

I think as others have suggested you may have to accept that some elements are going to remain "unsolved " because we have no way of knowing what the "truth " is from research or even some of the certificates , as with the burning issue of who your dad's father was. You are probably close to having as many of the relevant certs as you will need.


Regarding the issue of whether new people will bother reading your thread the answer is probably, yes they will be put off by the number of replies you have already had but you already have a number of experienced researchers helping you ( not including myself here !!) and I don't think that someone new is necessarily going to suddenly find the answers you seek.



Best wishes

Vanessa