Find Ancestors

Anthony, re. the above - it would be helpful if you listed the addresses you want to investigate, and which years. It's got very complicated hasn't it!
Jan

Hi Tess
Thanks for the info about the library. I'd forgotten all about women not getting the vote until after WW1 maybe someone could look at the addresses we have

Tony.
You might like to have a look at this in 1871 census
8 Bath Row
John Babington h m 63 Brass founder employing 6 men
Caroline Babington W M 50
Benjamin Babington s unm 24 brass founder
Mary Babington d unm 22
Charlotte Babington d unm 20
Caroline Clarke granddaughter unm 10
All born b¨ham.
Suspect Caroline was John´s 2nd wife.
John died 19 1 1875 Effects under 3,000 Executors, wife Caroline while she was a widow & son Benjamin.
1881 living 132 Rocky Lane Aston with Benjamin aged 34 & Caroline Clarke aged 20.
was browsing through wills & Babington /Clarke link seemed too good to ignore, but haven´t had time to look any closer.
Marion

Just a couple of comments, Vanessa I was the one who came up with the link between Muriel Hughes and Robert Clarke (i.e. Uncle bt marriage). Have to now confess that I hadn't read the previous postings properly.
Robert Clarke and family lived in Alfred ROAD - the Clarkes that Anthony is interested in lived in Alfred STREET.
So more than likely, no connection between the two Clarke families.

Re Elec Regs. Remember women did not get the vote till after the first world war, so there will be no record of Ellen before then.

Anthony (and anyone else interested) you can drink water while you search the records at Central Library (as long as you bring your own).
A few floors down, there is a toilet (very useful) and also a cafe, where you can get drinks, soup, sandwiches, jacket potatoes etc.
There are also a few places to eat just outside the Library.

Tess

Continuing the search, we now know the first name of the woman William Jnr married, we don't have a maiden name, a date or a place. We also know the names and approx dob for the 3 children. It is possible that his widow is still living and also the children.
We've done an Ancestry search for a marriage using just his details and another using his details and her first name but, as we've all said before William Clarke is such a popular name there apear to be dozens of marriages. There is one possibility in Dec Q 1960 that matches the first name we've been given.
We've done Ancestry searches using the childrens first names together with the Clarke surname giving fathers name only, others adding mothers first name and others using the maiden name of the possible mother.
We've also checked the public members trees on Ancestry, there is a family tree with the surname of the possible marriage we have found but she doesn't appear to be on that
Sorry to say we haven't made any connections at all.
Marion we'll send you pm with the names as we know that living people shouldn't be mentioned on a thread, if anyone else would like the challenge please do ask.

Good Morning Marion
We haven't come across any wills for our immediate family, unfortunately we don't appear to have been wealthy. Would that mean a trip to the library or is there a website?

Hi Vanessa
Not sure if they have a full run of electoral registers, but if not it could be an idea to look at the rates books which are held in the Archives. Don´t think you need a readers ticket to look at them because they are on open shelves.
Also, has anybody looked to see if any of the family have left wills?
I know it seems a bit unlikely, but you never know.
Marion

Meant to be going to bed then found this flipping thread !!

Very briefly, the site that I have looked at previously has only transcibed the elec roll from specific years . I presume at the library they have every year ? or were they not done every year then ??

Come back to this tomorrow but I do have work

bw

Vanessa

Hi Marion
I mentioned that there was no number Bk of 73 Watville Rd on dad's birth cert as there was 3 Bk of 73 on 1911 census and thought this might make a difference when Vanessa has time to look at the electoral records she has access to.
There's a good description from Jonesey of the back-to-back houses on P2 of this thread

Hi Jan

Thanks for this, I'm sure Vanessa will see it, if she doesn't say so I'll send her a pm.

Hi Anthony.
Me again.
With regard to the street numbering,if there was a small court at the back of a house, the address would be shown as 1bk 25 for example.
I think the address you are looking at would be a "blind back" where the back wall of the front house was a party wall with the back wall of the back house, which faced in the opposite direction (hope you can understand what I mean)
For these houses, the address would be 1 &either 1 back or back1.
had a friend who lived in this type of house in Cato Street Nechells in the 60s before they were demolished. Naturally, there was no rear exit or rear windows for either property. Lovely.!
Marion

Just a footnote - I was at the Central Library on a weekday about 2 weeks ago. No charge for microfilm readers and no need to book - just helped myself!
Parish records are available on microfilm too and accessible to the public.
Jan

Gosh, think you'd better take flask, food and a tent!

Vanessa, regarding the electroral roll look-ups you offered. Would it be much work for you to look at Ellen each year from May 1903 when we know she was definitely back in Birmingham as Ellen Clarke for Lilian Clarke's birth at 5 Court 6 Catherine Street. Through the birth of my father Ernest Babington in May 1910 at Bk 73 Watville Rd Handsworth (no number at the back of 73 on birth cert ) when she was Ellen Babington. Through the 1911 census when she was Ellen Babangton at 3 Bk 73 Watville Rd to the birth of William Clarke in 1913 unfortunately that cert isn't due to be despatched until tomorrow so have no idea what she was calling herself then, best guess would be Ellen Clarke.

What we are hoping you'll find is the name of a man, living with her, any man but preferably John Clarke, William John Clarke, John Babington or Babbington or Ernest Babington.

Do say if this is something that would take up too much of your time, you've already done lots for us or if you'd prefer to wait until we have an address for William's birth. We do remember you saying that Ellen was not at the Alfred St address before 1920

Edit... found it, you found Ellen on electoral rolls: -

1920 at 4 Bk 19 Alfred Street as Nellie Clarke

At 4 Court 2 Alfred Street in: -

1922 as Nellie Clarke
1930 as Nellie Clarke along with Nellie Jane Babbington
1935 as Nellie Clarke with Ellen Jane Babbington and William Clarke

This was also the address that William Jnr was married from in November 1936

You also found that William and Muriel lived at 4 Bk 19 Alfred Street until 1955, such a lot of swopping around of houses!

Gosh, think you'd better take flask, food and a tent!

Vanessa, regarding the electroral roll look-ups you offered. Would it be much work for you to look at Ellen each year from May 1903 when we know she was definitely back in Birmingham as Ellen Clarke for Lilian Clarke's birth at 5 Court 6 Catherine Street, through the birth of my father Ernest Babington in May 1910 at Bk 73 Watville Rd Handsworth (no number at the back of 73 on birth cert ) when she was Ellen Babington. Through the 1911 census when she was Ellen Babangton at 3 Bk 73 Watville Rd to the birth of William Clarke in 1913 unfortunately that cert isn't due to be despatched until tomorrow so have no idea what she was calling herself then, best guess would be Ellen Clarke.

What we were hoping to find was the name of a man, any man, living with her but preferably John Clarke or Ernest Babington.

Do say if this is something that would take up too much of your time, you've already done lots for us or if you'd prefer to wait until we have an address for William's birth. We do remember you saying that Ellen was not at the Alfred St address before 1920

Thanks for that Marion. I certainly want to give it a go so will get myself organised and go as prepared as possible with a few specific things to search for. Hope it doesn't become my next level of addiction !! My husband casts a disdainful look into the room when I am on the computer !

best wishes

vanessa

Hi Vanessa.
When I was last there about 5 years ago, they had all the GRO BMDs on microfilm. It was necessary to book a reader, especially at busy times such as Saturdays & it cost about 50p per half hour although this will undoubtedly have increased.
You need to book in at the information desk on the 6th floor. Don´t think you need ID to use them.
They also had the original (pre on line)IGI on microfiche. They used to be on open display, but due to regular theft ,they were moved to the information desk & you had to ask for the specific ones you wanted & sign them in & out.
Also on open shelves on the 6th floor are books of PRs for various places,not just in the Midlands, & the same for Trade directories,Electoral Rolls, Monumental Inscriptions,films of censuses for B´ham,old newspapers going back over 100 years registers of wills from 1858 to about 1955.
In fact you need a full day just to find out whats there.
On the top floor in the archives there are school records, company records, rates books, coroners records, some original parish records for B´ham churches, workhouse records, poor law records etc etc etc.
It´s a wonderful place for the addict & as I say, the staff are very helpful . Most of them have been there for years & are very knowledgeable.
Hope you enjoy your visit.
Marion

Thanks Vanessa
I'll try to comple a small list over the next few days.

Hi Marion, slight unestimation on my behalf that " you might have been " to Central library !!! Thank you for the explanation re : the Clarkes/ Hughes. Hopefully when Tony gets further info from certs we will be able to establish how the wider circle of Clarkes are actually connected to Ellen.

Tony, I am more than happy to go and have a shot at finding a few bits and pieces at the library. I can't say how much I might be able to find on my first trip but if you gave me a list of various things to search I will certainly give it a go.

Marion, do they have copies of Births/Deaths/ Marriages ? Maybe I could look at those to begin with ? Are they on microfiche ?

Interms of my own research have been fairly lucky with my Birmingham relatives as I had a lot of information to begin with . My brickwalls are further afield .

awaiting further instruction !!

best wishes

Vanessa

Hi Tony.
I seem to be coming at you from all directions today.
Yes Central Library do have cemetery records . They also have books of monumental inscriptions from various graveyards.
You really need to have some idea of where the burial took place & when.
They are mainly only Birmingham cemeteries & bear in mind that cremation was becoming a popular choice by the 20th century.
Marion

Hi Vanessa & Marion
Gosh I feel humble in the presense of 2 ladies of such obvious intelligence and grateful that you are helping me when I know that you both have your own research to do.

Vanessa thank you for the offer of a visit to Birmingham Central Library, as I've only been doing this research for a few months I've not been there nor have any knowledge of what records they might hold that would be relevant.

Can either of you think of any information I can give you that you could use for my research? I really don't want to take up too much of your time when you are visiting the library as I'm sure you have much of your own work to do.

Edit... just thought, would they hold cemetary records there?