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18/12/2011

Our Genes Reunited subscription ends on 28th December 2011, we have decided not to renew because we haven't had any luck for a long while now. We have had to accept that we are never likely to discover who my paternal grandfather was.

Many thanks to everyone who has helped us in the past, some of you have been absolutely brilliant and have given so much of your time.

We still have an active public tree on ancestry.com for the moment

Ellen Kirby Clarke 30/9/1875 (middle name was Kirby it was not part of her surname) was my grandmother.

I'm still looking for my grandfather, see latest info on P 22. On my fathers birth certificate he is named as Ernest Babington, born 21st May 1910, Bk 73 Watville Rd, Handsworth, Father: Ernest Babington Mother: Ellen Babington formerly Clarke, Informant: E Babington mother Bk 73 Watville Rd Handsworth, On dad's marriage certificate, 23rd December 1933 his surname is now Babbington and his father is named as John Babbington (deceased), his address is 34 White Road, Smethwick, witnesses are William Clarke and Nellie Jane Babbington. We now think that when dad married, he may not have had his birth certificate naming his father as Ernest Babington and that he may have assumed John, who was the father of Ellen Jane and Rosie May was also his father. None of the Ernest Babington/Babbington's I have found appear to have been his father. There's a Walter Ernest Babington who could have been him - see P 18 of thread but he was married to Jane and was still living with her on the 1911 census.

I need a birth record for John Thomas M Babbington born 1865 Hampstead, Middlesex son of John & Jane, who was the father of my dad's 2 older half sisters, He died in 1910 at 10 Copley Street, Ecclesall Bierlow, Sheffield.

I also still need the marriage record for Ellen & John if there is one. Also need marriage record for Ellen and a John Clarke or a William John Clarke, if they existed.

I still need to tie in the reason why Lilian was born a Clarke in 1903, my dad was named Babington in 1910, and William was born a Clarke in 1913.

Dad had 3 sisters (half sisters) Nellie, who I now know was Ellen Jane Babbington born Ecclesall B 1899, she is a witness on my dad's marriage certificate as Nellie Jane Babbington. Rose May, I now know she was the Rosie May Babbington born to Ellen formerly Clarke & John Babbington 1st October 1900 at 10 Copley Street, Ecclesall Bierlow. On Rosie's marriage certificate (1923) her fathers name was John Babbington (deceased).
The 3rd sister was Lilian Clarke born 15/5/1903 to a John Clarke and Ellen Clarke late Babington formerly Clarke.
William Clarke born 1913 in Birmingham was Ellen Jane's and Rosie May's halfbrother, maybe Lilian's brother and my dad's half brother,

Updated 24/9/2011 William Clarke was born Sept 1913 in West Bromwich to Ellen Clarke & an unnamed father. His halfsisters were Ellen Jane and Rosie May Babbington, possibly his sister was Lilian Clarke if they shared the same father, if not she was also his halfsister and his halfbrother was my dad Ernest Babington/Babbington. William's name appears as a witness on my dad's marriage certificate (1933).

On 1901 census there is a John Babington age 35 (son of John & Jane, born 1865 Hampstead, London) located at 10 Copley Street, Ecclesall Bierlow, wife Helen age 29, daughter Helen age 2 and daughter Rose age 6 months. The address is the same as that on Rosie May's birth certificate in 1900 and on the death certificate for John Babington who died 27 June 1901.

On 1911 census there is a Ellen Babangton widow, age 33, Ellen age 12, May age 10, Lily age 8 (the age 3 on the census is an admin error) and an Earnest age 1, these are definitely my family as the address in Handsworth is one known to have been the family address.

Searches say that John Thomas M Babington was married to an Emily Treaser Grigg (Gregg), did he simply live with Ellen in 1901 and the children given his name? Who was my father's father in 1910?

Further searches have revealed that 'our'John Babbington was married to an Elizabeth Carrington so maybe he wasn't the one married to Emily Treaser Grigg (Gregg).

Checking this out as a male name is missing:

Marriages Sep 1905 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clarke Ellen W. Bromwich 6b 1474

Looks like it is West Bromwich.

Marriages Dec 1923
Babbington Rose M Owen W.Bromwich 6b 1556

Full 1911 for info


BABANGTON, Ellen Head Widow F 33 1878 Dol Warwick Birmingham VIEW
BABANGTON, Ellen Daughter School F 12 1899 School York Sheffield VIEW
BABANGTON, May Daughter School F 10 1901 School York Sheffield VIEW
BABANGTON, Lily Daughter School F 3 1908 School York Sheffield VIEW
BABANGTON, Earnest Son M 1 1910 Warwick Birmingham VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
17208 Reference:
RG14PN17208 RG78PN1059 RD371 SD1 ED3 SN51

Registration District:
West Bromwich Sub District:
Handsworth Enumeration District:
3 Parish:
Handsworth

Address:
3 Bk 73 Wattville Road Handsworth Staffordshire County:
Staffordshire

1881 England Census
Name: John Babington
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: London Hampstead, London, Middlesex, England <<<<<
Civil parish: Birmingham <<<<<
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address: Bishopsgate St Court 20 No 1

Occupation: Street Orderly Tender (Scay)
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Thomas
Household Members:
Name Age
John Babington 42 - Journeyman Bricklayer; Scotland
Jane Babington 37 - London St Pancras, London
John Babington 16
Edward Babington 13 - Norwood, Surrey
Joseph Babington 11 - Norwood, Surrey

1871 England Census
Name: John Babbington
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, Hampstead, London, England
Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: Church Aston
Town: Aston Manor
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Erdington
Household Members:
Name Age
John Babbington 45
Jane Babbington 40
John Babbington 7
Christoper Babbington 5 - Hampstead
Edward Babbington 3
Joseph Babbington 1



Births Jun 1866
Babington Christopher Croydon 2a 162

The wildcard symbol * on Ancestry implies any number of letters in the actual word. By entering Ros* into the forename box and Bab* into the surname box on the 1901 England census form produces a page of results. I believe the one that you are interested in is the one below.

Name: Rose Babington
Age: 6 months
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Helen
Gender: Female
Where born: Sheffield

Civil parish: Ecclesall Bierlow
Ecclesiastical parish: Abbeydale St Peter
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 10 Cropley St

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
Sub-registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
ED, institution, or vessel: 61
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 268
Household Members: Name Age
John Babington 35 born London
Helen Babington 29 born Birmingham
Helen Babington 2
Rose Babington 6 months

N.B. Unfortunately the original 73 Wattville Road has been replaced by 3 new dwellings. It stood on the corner of Wattville road and Green Lane. You can however see roughly what it may have looked like as number 75 is still there on the opposite corner and you can view that on Google Earth by entering 75 Wattville Road Handsworth Birmingham UK into the GE address search box. Zoom in and then click on the nearest camera icon. The actual birthplace would have been a Back house in an enclosed courtyard behind number 73. It may even have been the rear half of number 73 itself. As Birminghams population expanded in order to accomodate them houses were constructed so that 2 families could effectively occupy one house space. This was quite a common type of dwelling in the poorer parts of Birmingham right up to the 1950's in fact my wife was born and raised in one not far away.

Hi Ozi, yes it says on his birth certificate that his father Ernest Babington was a Cycle Polisher and on his marriage certificate it says that his deceased father John Babbington was a Metal polisher

n

Hi Rose
Someone else has pointed out the death of John Thomas M Babington in 1901 but I've already found that he married an Emily Treaser Grigg in 1883 so I don't think he's the one. You say that there are no other deaths recorded in that district in 1901, you may be interested to know that when I was searching for my granddad Ernest Babington and I couldn't trace a death for him my brother managed to find a death for someone (not him)that was registered on the Hellas War Memorial, so for anyone searching family history it would never show up as a recorded death in this country. I've ordered a birth certificate for Rose May so we'll see what that says.
You suggest I check who lived at No 73 Watville Road, how do I do this please?

Anthony,

You already have the 1911 details for that address - posted on page 1.

Dea x

Apologies Anthony,

I don't see why it should help but the people at No 73 were:


WIGGINS, John Head Married M 32 1879 Railway Buffer Turner Handsworth Staffs
WIGGINS, Lizzie Wife Married 9 years F 34 1877 Smethwick Staffs
WIGGINS, John Son M 8 1903 Handsworth Staffs
WIGGINS, William Son M 7 1904 Handsworth Staffs

Address:
73 Wattville Road Handsworth Staffordshire County:
Staffordshire

Dea x

Lily born Bucklow isn't yours. She's listed on the 1911 census.

Rose

Oh those back-to-backs! Got me in a right mess with the addresses when I started out.
Have checked all the houses at no. 73 but nobody significant. There are some Clarkes up the road so keep in mind:

CLARKE, William Head Married M 67 1844 Labourer General Stafford Handsworth VIEW
CLARKE, Sarah Wife Married
48 years F 68 1843 Laundry Newbury VIEW
CLARKE, Arthur Son Married M 42 1869 Labourer General Handsworth VIEW
CLARKE, Thomas Son Single M 31 1880 Labourer Bricklayers And Builder Stafford Handsworth VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
17208 Reference:
RG14PN17208 RG78PN1059 RD371 SD1 ED3 SN88

Registration District:
West Bromwich Sub District:
Handsworth Enumeration District:
3 Parish:
Handsworth

Address:
131 Wattville Road Handsworth Staffordshire County:
Staffordshire

Many thanks Jan for 1911 census info re Clarkes at 131 Watville Road, will keep these in mind. Someone else mentioned that there were Clarkes in the same road and by 1918 they (or other Clarkes) were living next door. Any idea how I find the 1918 detail?
I'd not really thought about the back-to-back houses, even though I remember them as a child until Jonesey explained more.

Thanks Rose I've just had a quick look at marriages on Ancestry and they still say he married Emily Treaser Grigg so I'll take a look at this tree info tomorrow

There are electoral registers in B'ham Central Library - obviously only have people of voting age but would give an idea at least. Off there soon myself, might add you to my rather long list!!
Jan

Both trees appear to be inaccurate. They have Ernest being born in 1892.

Rose

Hi Jan, I hope your trip to Central Library produced some good answers for you. I would be grateful if you do add me to your ever increasing list, you're bound to reach my name sometime soon. Many thanks

Not been yet! Plan is for next week. Will have a look.
Jan