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Thanks for that I'm perplexed!!!!

Me too.

Sorry.

On Thomas Iorweths birth does it give a usual address for Jane besides the workhouse ?

If women only went there to give birth often there was another address given.

Yes !It's GWERNFEISTROL LLANYCIL R.D. It also states that she was a domestic servant there.

The workhouse was 6 MOUNT LANE BALA UD

People at that address in 1911,do you read/understand Welsh?
If you need translations please say.


EVANS, Humphrey Penteulu Priod M 33 1878 Ffarmwr Meirionydd Bala
EVANS, Mary Gwraig Priod F 25 1886 Ffarmwr Meirionydd Bala EVANS, Sarah Merch F 1 1910 Meirionydd Bala
EVANS, Mary Hughes Merch F 0 1911 Meirionydd Bala
ROBERTS, William Gwas Sengl M 26 1885 Wagner Ar Ffarm Meirionydd Bala
DAVIES, Owen David Gwas Sengl M 15 1896 Cowman Ar Ffarm Meirionydd Trawsfynydd

Registration District:
Bala Sub District:
Bala Enumeration District:
9 Parish:
Llanycil

Address:
Gwernfeistrol Llanycil Bala


Have to go out.
Back later.

Yes I read and understand Welsh .So she wasnt there then! It was a farm with husband ,wife and 1 daughter with 2 workmen on the farm. Where do you suggest I go from here now?. I do wonder whether Jane went back to this address when she was kicked out of the family home!

I really only have one suggestion left.

If you believe the Henry Jones death in 1966 to be your Thomas,s supposed grandfather I would get the death cert for possible info from it.

Who informed on the death,what relation they were to him,what his occupation was and the address to be sure it is him.

I dont think that Jane can be this mans daughter as I said,the dates dont add up.
Maybe she was a sister of Henry or other relation,but not his daughter.
Although there was not a Jane on the census with him.

Other than that I really dont know.

How did you come up with a possible birth year and place for Jane?
And a sister Nancy?

Went to the cemetery in Corris church and found the grave to get the dates I know that was the Henry .What relation he was to my father-in -law is another matter, but my husband always called him Taid which is the welsh for grandad!We also found a grave of Henry's son that died aged 19 years on June 8th 1929. He was called Robert Henry Jones My husband remembers an Auntie called Nancy who had a daughter called Iona
and remembers visiting her in Aberllefenni He assumed that Nancy was Henry's daughter and therefore Jane's sister----

Over the past few days every time I have had another search for them this one kept coming up.
The name of the son is here,and born right time.
Also Annie could be aunty Nancy.
AND Henry and Elizabeth are the ages that you have on the grave stones.
Just that Henry says born Merioneth.

JONES, Henry Penteulu Priod M 24 1887 Gweithis Mewn Gwatih Copper Meirionydd Llanuwchllyn
JONES, Elizabeth Gwraig Priod F 22 1889 Meirionydd Llanfachreth
JONES, Annie Olwen Merch F 4 1907 Meirionydd Llanfachreth
JONES, Robert Henry Mab M 0 (10 MONTHS) 1911 Meirionydd Llanfachreth

Registration District:
Dolgelley Sub District:
Barmouth Enumeration District:
18 Parish:
Llanfachreth

Address:
Drwsmele Rhydymain Dolgelly County:
Merionethshire

Its just that it always kept coming up....

They have been married 3 yrs.

Marriages Jun 1908
GRIFFITHS Elizabeth Anne Dolgelly 11b 661
Jones Henry Dolgelly 11b 661

I would send for the death of Henry to see if that is him and what his occupation was as his occupation would help seal this one or not.

But again,,no Jane.

That Henry in 1901

JONES, Henry Servant Single M 14 1887 Carter On Farm
Llanuwchllyn
Merionethshire

1891

JONES, Robert Head Married M 35 1856 Shepherd
Llanuwchllyn
Merionethshire
JONES, Ann Wife Married F 31 1860
Llanuwchllyn
Merionethshire
JONES, Henry Son M 5 1886
Llanuwchllyn
Merionethshire
JONES, Adwal E ( Idwal or Edwal on image)Son M 2 1889
Llanuwchllyn
Merionethshire

Registration District:
Bala Sub District:
Bala Enumeration District:
2 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Llanuwchllyn

Civil Parish:
Llanuwchllyn Municipal Borough:
Address:
Dolfudr, Llanuwchllyn County:
Merionethshire


Births Sep 1889
Jones Idwel Edward Bala 11b _47

my husband always called him Taid

So Henry was your husbands grandfather,not Thomas Iorwerths?

Ok.

This is 1901 for Ann Jones,Robert Jones widow,mother of Henry Jones born 1887 and he had a sister called Jane.....

EDWARDS, Jane Head Widow F 80 1821 Farming
Llanuwchllyn
Merionethshire
EDWARDS, Isaac Son Single M 37 1864 Ord Agric Labourer
Llanuwchllyn
Merionethshire
JONES, Ann Daughter Widow F 41 1860 General Servant (Domestic)
Llanuwchllyn
Merionethshire
JONES, Edward Edwal Grand Son Single M 11 1890
Llanuwchllyn
Merionethshire
JONES, Jane Grand Daughter Single F 9 1892
Llanuwchllyn
Merionethshire

Registration District:
Bala Sub District:
Bala Enumeration District:
2 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Llanuwchllyn St Deiniol

Civil Parish:
Llanuwchllyn Municipal Borough:
Address:
Tydu, Llanuwchllyn County:
Merionethshire

Only Isaac is at that address in 1911.

Think I may have found Edward/Idwal/Edwal.
But ann 1860 and Jane 1892 defeat me.


But I will say again that Henry Jones 1887 death cert is needed for his occupation and any other info to be gleaned from it.

On the 1901 Wales census there is a Jane Jones born in Upper Corris, Talyllyn in 1899. Parents Thomas and Mary borth born c1869 in Montgomeryshire - I can't decipher the town.

Margaret Elizabeth..

How did you come up with a possible birth year and place for Jane please?

Its just that what I have been working on this afternoon for you has really good possibilities,just that Its a little up the road over the border from Mach,not far though...

I cannot remember how I came across the year of birth for Jane .I have a feeling that I found something about the workhouse in Bala and it mentioned her name .-- not on genes reunited --The reason why I think She was born in Aberllefenni was that Henry was living at 14 Tai Uchaf ---He had a smallholding but whether he made a living out of that I dont know ---there was a slate mine nearby and most of the men worked there. I do appreciate what youre doing .Thanks so much

Are you sure the workhouse reference was of "your"Jane?


Did you read what I have put on here?

The 1911 census for Henry and Elizabeth Jones in merioneth and then tracing him and his family back and ending with him having a Sister Jane born in1892
Are you going to get Henrys death cert to see what info it has on it?

If he was born in 1887 he would not be old enough to have a daughter to give birth in 1915 I wouldnt have thought.

Thanks very much .I shall get the death certificate from Dolgellau register office

according to the death certificate Henry Jones died on the 1st March 1966 aged 79 years old.At the time of death he lived at 3 Idris Terrace Corris Merioneth He was a retired slate Quarryman. The informant was Thomas Iorwerth Jones ----my father -in -law.

Henry died in january 1966 and Elizabeth died in 1963. They were living at the time of their deaths at 14 Tai Uchaf Aberllefenni Merioneth.


So...

Henry didnt die at Aberllefenni then.
He died in Corris.
And died on ST Davids day.
(Dydd Gŵyl Dewi Sant)

What relationship to Henry does Thomas Iorwerth give on the D/C?

Son !!But I know he was'nt!!!! I just wondered if Henry died at his daughter's address ( Nancy )as on the headstone it definately stated 14 tai uchaf Aberllefenni as his address. Ive looked again at the details that you have come up with and it certainly looks as if that family at Llanuwchlyn is the right family!!!!

So Taid was what your husband called Henry then?
Which would make it right for Henry to be called Father(Tad) by Thomas Iorwerth.

So if Thomas Iorwerth called Henry Father then I do think the family that I traced back and forth ending with Henry having a Sister Jane born 1892 do look the most likely candidates.

So did he take in his Sister Janes child and bring him up as his son rather than Nephew to stop the wagging tongues ?

I know very well what a small Welsh town / village can be like and was even back in the early 1960s when I was a child.
Although I am in Cardigan/Carmarthen area.

OR
Was he really his son with a Jane Jones?

Thomas Iorwerth knew that Jane was his mother but yes he had been brought up by Henry---but as he had been born out of wedlock she was kicked out of the family ----
Apparantely TI could never bring up the subject of his mother and all photos of her had been destroyed(cruel!)
T I tried all ways to find her until the day he died in October 1970 .It would be wonderful to find out where she went and whether she ever had any other children---maybe my husband has Aunts /Uncles out there somewhere ---if we could only find them Diolch i chi am eich help