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I forget whether I mentioned in my PM back to you Jim -- it is worth getting your parents' marriage certificate just to see what it says. I'll put the info here just so it's in the thread -- this is what you need for ordering the certificate.

Name: Hilda Pegg
Spouse Surname: Thornton
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1937
Registration district: Gateshead
Registration county (inferred): Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 1549

and you do that here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

It is of course not going to name a father other than Mr. Pegg, but you would probably like to have it anyway.

Can you tell us the name of the Peggs? It's possible it was a family adoption, and if so we could look for the connection.

As for the date on the death record ... it isn't necessarily correct. It's what was reported by the person who registered it, and so it would be what your dad knew. It's possible that your mum didn't know her correct birthdate (my grandfather born in 1901 didn't; he thought he was born in 1900).


Victoria's first post with the ???? in it got a little garbled (using pairs of pointy brackets makes some text disappear).

The Mary Park (mother Blackett) birth was in the right quarter, wrong year (1916). This could be a case like my grandfather's, of knowing the birthday but getting the year wrong.

There wasn't a Mary Park birth registered 3rd quarter 1914. The three in 4th quarter 1914 look unlikely.

I wondered whether her parents weren't likely unmarried, so she'd be a Park-Park birth. There was only one 1912-1916, in Hackney 3rd quarter 1913. That covers July of that year, but the geography seems unlikely.

It's possible her father was away in WWI and perhaps eventually killed, and that was the reason for her adoption. Many people's lives were ruined by that pointless war.

This is all just musing, because the info you have, her birthdate and possible name, isn't matching up with a record, so it's hard to know what to suggest. I think I would get her marriage and death certificates, just to have them and in case there is any info at all.



Well, I'd left the tab open too long and was overtaken by events! There's the answer to my question up above. ;)

And I think I might cast a careful eye on this person in the 1911 household:


PEGG, Mary Sister Single F 23 1888 Domestic Duties


The only birth in Gateshead in Q3 1914 with mother Pegg is:

DOBSON Jane H Pegg Gateshead 10a 2133


and it's actually possible that she was the daughter of that Mary Pegg:

Marriages Sep 1913
Dobson Thomas H Pegg Newcastle T. 10b 159
Pegg Mary A Dobson Newcastle T. 10b 159

Oh janey you are awful! i never thought of that for a minute!

Annx

Well, it's a theory!

The Dobson-Pegg couple may have these children:

Births Dec 1913
DOBSON Charles B Pegg Morpeth 10b 796
Births Sep 1914
DOBSON Jane H Pegg Gateshead 10a 2133
Births Mar 1917
Dobson Thomas H W Pegg Gateshead 10a 1519
Births Dec 1923
Dobson Elsie M Pegg Gateshead 10a 1805

but it's possible they all belonged to this other potential couple:

Marriages Mar 1902
? Dobson James William Morpeth 10b 581
Kerr Margaret Willis Morpeth 10b 581
? PEGG Edith Henson Morpeth 10b 581
Shillinglaw Edward Thomas Morpeth 10b 581


I'm not ruling out Mary Pegg!

Wouldn't it be nice to know the Peggs really were family? -- I hope, anyhow.


No marriage for a Mary Pegg in Gateshead 1911-1920, or a death of a Mary Pegg her age anywhere in that time. So I suspect that marriage is her.

Jane Isabella Banks was actually Jane Isabella Noble. Here she is in 1891;

1891 England Census
about Jane I Noble
Name: Jane I Noble
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Whickham, Durham, England

Civil parish: Whickham
Ecclesiastical parish: Dunston
Town: Dunston
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Gateshead
Sub-registration district: Whickham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Noble 38
John Thos Noble 15
Jane I Noble 5


And in 1901;

1901 England Census
about Jane I Banks
Name: Jane I Banks
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Alexander
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Whickham, Durham, England

Civil parish: Gateshead
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Gateshead
Sub-registration district: Gateshead
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 25
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Banks 40
Elizabeth Banks 49
Jane I Banks 15
William Noble 21
Jane Noble 78
John Noble 42


And her marriage;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COLLINSON John William Gateshead 10a 1777
>>>>>>>>>>>NOBLE Jane Isabella Gateshead 10a 1777
>>>>>>>>>>PEGG John Gateshead 10a 1777
ROBINSON Frances Gateshead 10a 1777



So maybe looking into the Noble side of the family too many also be beneficial???


Dee x

The Noble Banks marriage;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>>>BANKS Alexander Gateshead 10a 1189
Moody Dorathy Gateshead 10a 1189
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Noble Elizabeth Gateshead 10a 1189
WATSON John Willis Gateshead 10a 1189



Janey I don't want to blow your theory out of the water but Mary may have been born a Noble???



Dee x

Well done Dee!

Janey & Ann, thanks for the info, it's just great, I never thought that when I posted my Thread that I would have had so much help from you all including Victoria. That is an interesting thought Janey about sister Mary Pegg, It just might have been Mary Pegg was her mother and not Mary Park was her name??.

Many thanks again off to bed now but I will be back tomorrow night

Jim.

Marys birth??

Births Dec 1887 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOBLE Mary Isabella Gateshead 10a 851



Maybe her in 1901??

1901 England Census
about Mary Isa Banks
Name: Mary Isa Banks
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Stella, Durham, England

Civil parish: Stella
Ecclesiastical parish: St Cuthbert
Town: Stella
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Gateshead
Sub-registration district: Winlaton
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 100
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Banks 79
Isabella Banks 79
Mary Isa Banks 13


Dee x

Interesting.

Births Sep 1914
Noble Hilda (mother Noble) Newcastle T. 10b 109

Possibly quite interesting?

Possible marriage for the sister mary;

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1912 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mack James Noble Gateshead 10a 1696
Noble Mary I Mack Gateshead 10a 1696



I have to finish now.... getting too late for me, will pop back in the morning.


Dee x

Now hold on, Dee (and can't I persuade you to delete all the useless bumph from those census records??)

Mary Pegg was John Pegg's sister -- not his wife's sister. ;)

Both are candidates -- Mary Pegg and Mary Noble.

Bed Jim! Us genealogists never sleep!

Nite nite

Annx

Jane Isabella parents
Elizabeth Noble & Alexander Banks

John Pegg

Henry Pegg and Mary Eliza Elliot

looking for connection to surname PARK

Oh Janey........ i stand corrected Hun, told you it was too late for me, I need some shut eye!!!

Night night.


Dee x

Dee, you've confused the * out of me.

I assumed you were talking about a Mary Noble who was a sister of Jane Noble.

But this person (note how I eliminate the bumph!)

Births Dec 1887
NOBLE Mary Isabella Gateshead 10a 851

isn't in Isabella's household pre-1911. We don't know she's Jane's sister -- ? A relation maybe, yes.

Well actually, pretty likely *not* Jane's sister -- since they both had middle name Isabella! But quite possibly related.


Edit -- aha, 'twasn't I who was confused then. ;)
I'm dead beat too, even thugh it's only 8 pm here. It's the heat. If it isn't the heat, it's the humidity.

These are all people worth taking looks at, I think.

Wow! This thread has developed apace! Worth me typing my little fingers to the bone then, heh Janey??? :))


Hope it all works out well Jim. Cx

here's John Peggs WW1 record, it confirms jane Isabella Noble as his wife and more importantly it states a daughter; Hilda PARK born GATESHEAD 25.07.1914;


British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
about John Pegg
Name: John Pegg
Residence: 127 Vine Street Gateshead
Document Year: 1920
Regimental Number: 1023
Regiment Name: DLI
Number of Images: 25




They married on 01.07.1907 and the witnesses were Muriel Dawn and J J Anderson.


Dee x

So Looking at the births the one that Seaham Lass found which Janey confirmed for Hilda Parks mother Craggs registered September 1914 is looking more likely now.


Dee x

This maybe the marriage of the parents for the Park/Craggs children


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1906 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>>Craggs Mary Jane Gateshead 10a 1174
NEWCOMBE John William Gateshead 10a 1174
>>>>>>Park William Gateshead 10a 1174
Smith Amelia Gateshead 10a 1174


Dee x