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Thank you for your update Potty.

I was unsure that it could be the right death with it being in a later quarter but now I will send for that death certificate. I was really hoping to find the birth for little Mary. The baby's death certificate may give me more info.

Chris

See my edited post re late registration - I will try to find the thread.

Hi Potty,

Thank you for taking the time to look. I'd found the death, it was the birth I couldn't find.

What are your thoughts on mum Marys death reg being the quarter following the burial.

Chris

Could this be Mary Beatrice's death reg:

Deaths Dec 1878
TURNER Mary Beatrice 0 Derby 7b 283

Re the late registration of Mary's death - I saw on another thread today a reference to a death registration 6 months after death and that the registrar had noted "curious" against it.

Sad result following my visit to the records office.

I found the burial record for the Henry Turner death in 1876 and this confirmed it was the right death. Address given was Marys mums and step-dads house.

I then checked the grave register and found he was buried with his wife Mary 25 yrs who was buried on 24/9/1878. The record stated she had died in Birmingham.

Also buried with them were Henry William Turner aged 3 weeks buried 1/5/1877 so Mary would have only been a few weeks pregnant when her husband died. There is also 5 week old Mary Beatrice Turner who was buried on 28/10/1878 - another mystery, who was her father.

What is confusing me is that the death I think is the correct one for 25 year old Mary is registered in Dec q 1878 in Aston which does cover Birmingham, yet burial certainly looks like 24/9/1878 so I was expecting the death to be registered in Sept q. Could a death have been registered after the burial.

I also cannot find a birth for Mary Beatrice Turner. I'm wondering if the family didn't get around to registering it as her birth was so close to her mothers death.

I would appreciate any thoughts on mum Marys death registration.

Thank you again to those who have helped me in my search.

Chris

Hi Michael*

Thank you for your further input.

I don't believe the widowed Mary you found is mine. Her birth was registered as Mary, no middle name and on her marriage she was just Mary. I think her daughter Annie was given her middle name after Marys sister Elizabeth. Also my Marys place of birth is Hanbury Staffs unlike the Mary in 1881 which is North Derbyshire, quite a way from Hanbury.

I think the death you found for Henry Turner is more likely than the one I found. Burton district covers areas very close to Derby so may be the one. I am visiting Derbyshire records office this week so am hoping to find the burial record for the Henry Turner death in Derby and can perhaps rule it in or out. The Burton one I would have to send for the certificate.

Thank you again for your help.

Chris

Apart from the death you found aged 28 in 1876, there is also this one .......

Deaths Dec 1878

TURNER Henry - 30 - Burton 6b 277

So this is Mary's daughter Annie E. living with grandmother in Rivett St. in 1881

John HUDSON Head M Male 61 Derby Laborer
Ann HUDSON Wife M Female 61 Hanbury, Stafford, England
Annie E. ALLSOPP Grand Daur Female 6 Derby, England Scholar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As you think you've found a death for Henry
Wonder if this is widowed Mary in 1881
(did she have a middle initial E like her daughter ?)

Thomas TURNER Head M Male 30 Eckington, Derby, England Coal Miner Empd
Bertha J. TURNER Wife M Female 24 Unstone, Derby, England Coal Miner Wife
Johnathan TURNER Son Male 3 Eckington, Derby, England
Mary E. TURNER Daur Female 2 Eckington, Derby, England
George H. TURNER Son Male 2 w Unstone, Derby, England
~~~~~~~~~~~~Mary E. TURNER Sister Law W Female 26 Unstone, Derby, England

:
Dwelling Low Road 8
Census Place Dronfield, Derby, England

Michael thank you so much for that information.

It's certainly got me thinking and explains why I have not been able to find Elizabeths birth before. Thanks to your input I have now found what I believe to be her birth registered in the name of Pegg in Mar q 1850 in Burton upon Trent which covered Hanbury.

I've never been able to find Ann and Thomas Alsop in 1841. In 1851 Ann has 1 year old daughter Elizabeth with her and 'lodger' Sam Pego who is 27 years her senior. His name has obviously been mistranscribed and must be Elizabeth father. I will be ordering hers and Marys birth certificates tomorrow.

Unfortunately there are two deaths for a Sam Pegg in Burton district in 1851 and 1854 so not sure which of these may be mine. If it's the first one, then obviously he's not Mary's father. If it's the second he could be yet no father mentioned on the baptism you found for me.

I just wish I could find Mary in 1881....any experts fancy a challenge, please.

Chris

Make of this what you will but I thought it may be of interest

MARY ALLSOP
Female
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 17 MAY 1853 Hanbury, Stafford, England

Parents:
Mother: ANNE ALLSOP

----------------------------------------------------------

Under Same batch number....................


ELIZABETH ALSOP OR PEGG
Female
----
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 28 FEB 1850 Hanbury, Stafford, England
Parents:
Father: SAMUEL PEGG
Mother: ANNE ALSOP

You might like to click the "edit" button under your opening post and update the text to show that you are "Now looking for Mary"

No luck with Mary, Chris.

Well done for all the other stuff you found.

Ozi

Thanks to the great help I've received on this thread, I've been able to research some more and have further info.

Having visited the records office and found Elizabeth and William Humpstons marriage, I know that her sister Mary was was still single as she was one of the witnesses. What was strange was that Elizabeths father was named as John Allsopp. Her father was Thomas Allsopp who had died when she was 10. Her step fathers first name was John so can I assume that when asked what her dads name was she may have only given her step-dads first name and that his surname was entered as Elizabeths surname.

I then looked for the marriages in Derby for a Mary Allsopp. I found the right one at St Peters church Derby on 2/7/1876. The address given in the record was the same as where Marys illegitimate daughter Annie was born. She married Henry Turner 29 years a painter. Father named as William Turner also a painter. The witnesses were William and Elizabeth Humpston. Henry also gave the same address as Mary. Strangely Mary named her father as Samuel Allsopp even though it was Thomas.

I checked the 1881 and couldn't find either Mary or Henry. There is a death for a Henry Turner aged 28 yrs in Derby only 5 months after they married.

So I am struggling yet again to find Mary my 2x gt grandmother. Can anyone please help me.

Having checked the burial registers for the local cemetery's I have been able to confirm all the previous info that has been found for me on this thread. Thank you so much.

Chris

Ozi,

You are amazing, thank you so very much. No wonder I couldn't find her.

A very appreciative

Chris

This fits Edward's wife.

Deaths Jun 1884
Cockayne Emma 42 Derby 7b 310

My gut feeling is that Elizabeth Cockrayne is your lady. In 1881 Edward's wife is Emina (possibly Emma but certainly looks like Emina). She's born c 1840 in Derbyshire. No Emina Cockrayne showing in BMDs.

I doubt Edward & Elizabeth were ever married.

I believe Edward dies in 1895.
Deaths Mar 1895
Cockayne Edward 57 Derby 7b 389

Thank you for looking Ozi, my Elizabeth obviously moved then.

Chris

Looks like Elizabeth Armstrong to me. She's born in St Helens. I don't think she's yours.

Ozi

I've been trawling the census using possible spouse names but not come up with right age/place of birth.

I may well have to visit the register office and specify Marys fathers name and hope I'm lucky.

Chris

There is an Elizabeth who is a widow living at 19 Rivett Street Derby but I cannot make her surname out.

If you search for Ann Hudson c 1820 Hanbury with spouse John living in Derby you will find an Elizabeth listed after Annie Elizabeth.

Would you mind having a look for me please.

Chris