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Thanks for all who replied. In response to Janey I did follow up Edwin connection but got a rather curt reply saying my ancestor couldn't be related as their Seymours all originate from Gosport. (although that of course does not count him out of the equation at all) I did request to view their tree but no response to date. I have spent quite a lot of money buying marriage & birth cert's and until I am a little more sure of any link I am somewhat hesitant in ordering them although I may just have to.

In response to Margaret, My mention of his Canadian descent is based purely on his 'geographical birth' as opposed to any birth whose criteria is based on which country may or may not have been the ruling power at any particular point in history. I am aware of Newfoundland's pre-1949 status. My ancestor in question (William Arthur Seymour) was definitely born in St. John's, Newfoundland as copies of his military record dictate as such so hopefully that will end any doubting Thomas's on this question.

I will always follow up leads as I am acutely aware of the time and effort this involves and consequently I am very grateful to those who reply; however on occasions like many others researching their family history, I simply need to take a break. The very recent death of my father has not helped and any ground I have not covered re: leads I will indeed take on board

Mike, back on 9 July I explained that if he was born in Newfoundland in 1864 he wasn't Canadian but a month later you're still talking about his Canadian descent.

Your PM to me in July said you were going to follow up the leads I suggested (and spent quite a lot of time developing!).

You decided against investigating possible brother Edwin as a possible source of more info, then? -- e.g getting his marriage certificate, contacting the two people here at GR who have him in their trees ... or was that the family link you're talking about? and if so it would be useful to know that ...

Can I just reiterate ... he wasn't born in / didn't live in Canada ...


edit - just to note - the two GR members who have Edwin Seymour born in Newfoundland in their trees also have his children in the 1901 census household (just search for Seymour born 1891-1901 in Cornwall):

Edwin Seymour 35
Mary E Seymour 35
Sarah Seymour 9
Clara Seymour 6
Eliza Seymour 5
Willie Seymour 4
Mary E Seymour 3
Florence M Seymour 18 months

That's a lead I can't imagine ignoring, myself!

After a short break from my research I have now returned to find I am no further forward in my search for the birth records for my Great Grandfather (William) Arthur Seymour (b. Newfoundland around 1864)

I recently met up with a GR member who shares a family link with this particular ancestor although they too are unable to shed any light on his Canadian descent. I have amassed a lot more general information on his family but nothing linking his life in Canada or anything about his father (also William) - Canadian genealogical sites too have not born any fruit. I'm beginning to think he wasn't born on this planet at all!! Any help as ever to break this brick wall will be appreciated

At Ancestry, several people have Dionysius Seymour c1802 in their trees.

Two of them show his son William Seymour c1842.

Both of them show the 1851 census and no farther -- no later census, no marriage, no kids.

Dying would be one possibility, joining the military (or possibly being a fisher, since the Grand Banks were a huge 19th century destination) and going to Nfld would be another. If you have Ancestry access you could try contacting those people as well.

Edwin Seymour c1866 is in several trees at Ancestry -- again, with exactly the same info I found here (c1866 Nfld, married to Mary Elizabeth Gilbert, in 1901 census), no parents.

Mike Mike Mike. ;)

You're very welcome, and I hope the hypotheses bear fruit. (I'd check Edwin's marriage certificate to see who his father was, first.)

But please please please do reply in the thread rather than by private message -- the PM system here is so clunky and slow, and often one does just have to toggle back to the thread anyhow (and often struggle to find it, if the message received isn't as prompt as yours was) to check things. And that way everybody who sees the thread knows you did see the new info and reply, and we all like to know that!

If Dionysius turns out to be yours, father of William father of William Arthur, that would be a fine name to have. ;) This one seems too young to be his father, but not all baptisms took place directly after birth:

DIONYSIUS SEYMOUR
Christening: 22 FEB 1789 Holy Trinity, Gosport, Hampshire, England
Father: THOMAS SEYMOUR
Mother: ANN
Batch No.: C073562

There are 7 more births to that couple in that batch ... almost all with equally distinctive names! Clarinda was baptised on the same date, but wasn't necessarily a twin, there could have been a batch baptism.

I have been hunting around various NFLD vital stats sites I have bookmarked. This site:

http://ngb.chebucto.org/Cmisc/1911-eng-census.shtml

lists individuals in the 1911 census shown as born in Nfld and shows only the two Seymours:

SEYMOUR Edwin 1863 48 M Redruth Cornwall
SEYMOUR William Arthur 1864 47 M West Bromwich Staffordshire



One other teeny probably irrelevant finding in the censuses:

Name: Belinda L Seymour
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Niece
>> Where born: Exeter, Canada
Civil parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Marylebone

It says Exeter, Canada W; Canada West = Ontario, and Exeter is a minor little town in southwestern Ontario that I don't think had any military garrisons. ;) She and several other Seymours born 1864-1872 appear in the 1881 census. The parents of the others were also born in Canada; he is CE, a warehouseman. Not likely related to yours at all.

Mike, I wouldn't focus too much on the Newfoundland birth (and truly, it isn't Canada - Nfld did not join Confederation until 1949, until when it was a British colony).

His father William was a soldier -- undoubtedly a British soldier, garrisoned there. A birth/baptism record could give you his mother's name, which of course would be helpful, but the parents would most probably have married in England, although it's possible his mother was local to Newfoundland.

-- or -- it would be quite common for a British soldier in Newfoundland or Canada to have been Irish (and possibly to have settled in England after the posting).


We may have a brother for Arthur, in the 1901 census:

Name: Edwin Seymour
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary E
>>> Where born: Nf
Occupation: Sailor

Civil parish: Illogan
Town: Porkeath
County/Island: Cornwall
Registration district: Redruth

Edwin Seymour 35
Mary E Seymour 35 - born Illogan
Sarah Seymour 9 - born Illogan
Clara Seymour 6
Eliza Seymour 5
Willie Seymour 4
Mary E Seymour 3
Florence M Seymour 18 months


Marriages Mar 1892
Gilbert Mary Elizabeth Redruth 5c 311
Seymour Edward Redruth 5c 311
Seymour Edwin Redruth 5c 311
(I checked the image, and it is Edwin, not Edward)


Two members of GR have
Edwin Seymour 1866 Newfoundland
in their trees, so you could try to contact them.

You have William Arthur Seymour as born 1865 in West Bromwich, which you might want to fix. There are no other Seymours in trees born in Newfoundland 1855-1875.

Oh, it would also be wise to change how he is shown in your tree. I would have one entry for him as William and one as Arthur. (I have whole lines of people in mine who look like this -- whose first name was one thing but they went by their middle, or who were born with one surname but went by another.)

As it stands, searching for either William or Arthur doesn't find him, since you have him as William Arthur. Yes, that's how the system works ...


The names Edward, Edwin and Edmund often got muddled. (My grandfathter thought he was Edward until he was 65, when he got his birth cert and discovered he was Edmund, and 64.)

I wondered whether this boy in1881 could be interesting. There is no Edw* Seymour birth in Hampshire 1864-67.


Name: Edward Seymour
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Nephew
Where born: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: Alverstoke
County/Island: Hampshire
Occupation: Carpenters Apprentice

Deonysus Seymour 56 - born Gosport, Waterman (On Sea)
Mary Ann Seymour 55
Charles Seymour 28
Mary Ann Seymour 24
Edward Seymour 15


The uncle's name has been corrected by an Ancestry user:
"Dionysius rather than Deonysus
mixture of incorrect original and transcription error"
That user has been active at Ancestry this week, so it could be worth an inquiry.

That Dionysius is with parens in 1841 and married by 1851. The parents' household in 1851 is in Alverstoke is:

Dionysius Seymour 47 - Waterman, born Gosport
Charlotte Seymour 45 - Midwife, born Gosport
James Seymour 18
Jane Seymour 11
??? William Seymour 9
Sarah Seymour 7

Neighbours have sea-related occupations: Mariner, Rigger at dockyard ... Son William is gone from the household in 1861.

That William, born c1841, could have had children in the mid-1860s.


Possibly interesting in 1881 ... there is a big black space over all the places of birth and this person's is illegible, but I would guess that a couple near the top say Quebec.

Name: William Seymour
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Where born: Alverstoke, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: Vessels
County/Island: Hampshire
Street Address: "Discovery
>> Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Stoker

Registration district: Portsea Island


He seems to be married to Eliza in 1891.

However -- there are two distinct births, and I think the boy in 1851 is the first, and the stoker in 1881 is the second, probably:

Births Sep 1841
SEYMOUR William Job Alverstoke 7 30
Births Jun 1844
Seymour William Alverstoke 7 23


The one born 1844 is in Beirut in the Royal Navy in 1861. I don't see one born 1841.

Thanks Patricia. That hopefully puts that particular query 'to bed' - this ancestor is giving me so many headaches!

I have received an e-mail today from the GRO in the UK explaining they have not been able to trace a birth certificate for William Arthur Seymour from the information I have provided. So it looks like I'm back to the drawing board as to date there is no trace of his birth in Canada too.

Hi Mike........I looked at this thread as I am also a Seymour by birth [mine are from Lancs/Yorkshire though.

But in regards to your William being 'married' on the 1901 census, I would say this was put for 'appearances' sake. I have found a couple of instances of this with my own ancestors, and also a couple who do say they are single/widowed, but she is his 'housekeeper', they married a couple of months after the census.

when looking for a marriage now I always look after the first census I find them togather on if I haven't found them before

I have now received William Arthur Seymour's Marriage Certificate for his 2nd marriage (to Sarah Withington) This gives his father's name as being William Seymour (my family don't seem to have tried too hard when it came to naming their children!) This marriage took place in West Bromwich in 1904, by which time William Seymour was deceased. I currently have no way of telling if he too was born in Canada and if so when. There are certainly no William Seymours in the West Bromwich area in any of the UK Census records prior to 1891.

If it's any help to anyone, William Seymour's profession is listed as being a soldier. I have, as previously noted, not been able to trace William Arthur Seymour's birth record in any UK/ Canadian record and am still awaiting his birth details from the GRO here in the UK (if they indeed have one) This too applies to his father William Seymour.

There is one other strange anomaly to all this.William Arthur Seymour's second marriage took place in 1904; however according to the 1901 Census, his second wife Sarah Withington, is listed as being his wife, 3 years before records show they married. Anyone explain this?

Mike ...Will follow this thread and see what Transpires...Let me know if you need
anything at a later stage...
I have St Johns Baptisms/Marriages and Death/Burials...RC/CoE/Meth./Census

OK. I have discovered that although he was born in Canada, his birth details may be held in the UK; I have as a consequence requested his birth certificate from the GRO.
Here's hoping!

n

If anyone can help Mike

Thank you Margaret, that is indeed an interesting point. I had heard before about Newfoundland's status as a British colony, however I am even more confused than ever as to how to trace his birth record. He certainly doesn't appear on on UK Census details between 1871-1881. Back to the drawing board I think!

If he was born in Newfoundland in 1864 he wasn't a Canadian. Newfoundland didn't join Canada until 1949. It was a British colony until then.

Mike

You need the marriage certificate to Sarah and then we'll have his fathers name which may help in your search

Mike

Ive resent those images to your email address. Also, this looks to be him

Name: SEYMOUR, ARTHUR
Initials: A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: North Staffordshire Regiment
Unit Text: 2nd/6th Bn.
Date of Death: 17/04/1916
Service No: 20096
Additional information: Husband of the late Sarah Seymour. Born at West Bromwich.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Screen Wall. G. 51.
Cemetery: LEEDS (HAREHILLS) CEMETERY


In all those pages I sent you there is no mention that he was Canadian.....Im starting to think that maybe he wasnt?

This is defo him as his wife and children are listed. If you PM me your email address I'll send you the images

Theres also letters from his son Joseph

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
about Arthur Seymour
Name: Arthur Seymour
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Age at Enlistment: 50
Residence: 40 Smith Street, West Br??
Document Year: 1915
Regimental Number: 3703
Regiment Name: North Staffs Regt
Number of Images: 23