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I am still not with it Janey. So is the marriage of Sidney Harrison and Nellie Linley a complete red herring?

EDIT maybe another brother/sister marriag- I have four of them.

thats great info thanks i am going to try and get in touch with my dad we havent spoken for a while and see if he will tell me anything but it looks like we have the right person
thank you to all of you for your help will let you know what dad says
claire

I've actually already been in touch with a couple of the people who have Worksop Coupes in their trees. One was about something irrelevant and I don't want to ever have anything more to do with her! One was about when I was helping a third party ...

Did I mention my family is from Worksop? ;) Well, not exactly; my grandmother's uncle moved to Worksop from Calverton, and owned the Gas Tavern on Canal Street there. My mum and I visited it (by then the Canal Pub) in 1994, and we gave them a WWI photograph of men in uniform posed outside the pub.

Okay, this tale gets complicated. ;)

A couple of years ago, I was helping somebody at the Devon family history board find out who her aunt had married in WWI, which I did, and then I volunteered to check at GR to see whether he was in anybody's tree. (He had been killed in the war, and her aunt died not long after. She wanted to share the wedding photos with any living family). One of the people who did have him in her tree here turned out to be ... his granddaughter. He'd had a child with someone else before marrying. She lives in Worksop.

So we were chatting, and she said she had a cousin in British Columbia. I'm in Canada, but I've never been to BC. ;) But I said I'd visited Worksop, and a cousin there, the granddaughter of that pub owner, had recently contacted me through Ancestry.

And she said ...

I cant believe what you have just said about XXX family
My friend AAA XXX BBB I think has been in touch with you she has told me about you and about Calverton

So talk about yer small worlds. ;)

But anyhow, she isn't the one with Cissie Coupe in her tree. I did get a reply from the one who has her, but she never got beyond the "request to view tree" and "tree access granted" even though I explained we weren't related, so I don't know any more.

But I just had to say: small world. I don't doubt that I had a beer in the same place as Linleys and Coupes and likely Harrisons did on occasion!

Oops -- yes, MM, red herring -- but I'd bet you're right and they're related somehow. The Harrison-Linley web seems to be a complicated one. ;)

So I think the late births in Rotherham are probably a false trail too? Belonging to Sidney and Nellie, who may or may not be related here.

Claire -- let us know what he thinks!

Okay, here is Gertrude Fanny Linley (Coupe, Harrison) in 1901.


Name: Gertrude Linley
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Charlotte
Where born: Sandall, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Whitwell
Town: Whitwell
County/Island: Derbyshire

John Linley 37
Charlotte Linley 34
James Linley 13
John Linley 11
Gertrude Linley 9
Mary Linley 4
Albertha Linley 3
Ernest Linley 1


We know this because the rest of the family -- John and Charlotte with James, Mary Elebeteh (as transcribed), Alberta and Ernest -- are living in Worksop in 1911.

No Ethel in the household in 1911.

But now we're pretty sure that Gertrude was Joyce's mother, so this is our real trail anyway. We're just madly curious about Ethel. ;)

thanks janey it does look like we have the right people and i managed to get in touch with my cousin who said joyce's mum died when she was young and she gre up with heraunty who married her dad so its all starting to fit i found jeans birth im now trying to find brian and work out who john born 1918 and lillian were and if they died young
thanks for all your help
claire

And a tip for next time -- ask the people who know *first*!

With that info from your cousin, we could have directed our search a little better.

Not that it isn't always nice to start from zero and demonstrate how scathingly brilliant we are by being proved right. ;)

You can look for deaths in infancy or early childhood at FreeBMD. After 1911, death records give the age at death, so if any of the children did die young, you will be able to identify them. I don't think Meg or I had done that search yet.

I have a family like this, a century earlier. My grx3 grandfather Samuel was married first to Elizabeth, who died. The first husband of Elizabeth's sister Sarai also died. So Samuel and Sarai, um, shacked up. ;) Back in those days, it was illegal for a man to marry his deceased wife's sister -- I guess they thought it would deter hanky-panky and murder! (I assume it worked the other way too.) I come from the second "marriage".

It simplifies the family tree, anyhow, when someone's two spouses were siblings. ;)

(Actually, it's impossible to show that in trees here at GR -- just in case you try. The two spouses end up on two separate trees; you can't show one person marrying two people who are siblings. So it's easiest just to show each of the women as married to Herbert Harrison, and attach his ancestors only to one HH -- just make a note on the other one that he's the same one.)

So, Claire, you are saying that Gertrude Fanny (Frances) and Ethel May were sisters? If so I endorse the suggestion that you should get their two marriage certificate to Herbert Harrison, as your mum may not have the right story. We want them to have the same fathers, with the same occupation. It is worth checking as they don't appear on any census together.

And you already knew that, or have just checked with your mum?

It would have saved a lot of my time if I had known we were looking for two sisters, instead of me homing in on Stanley and whoever it was. Thank goodness that Ms Canuck didn't accept what I had found - but I did find a lot of kids with mmn Linley and it took me about 3 hours to find. That long list of children was vital. Incidentally for anyone to wonder how I found them, I picked on what I thought were the more obscure/modern names, so Brian and Alan were favourites. Didn't work at all. I found it via Marie. I imagined loads of Maries being born, but only about 8.

Before anyone says it's easy, yep, easy if you know in advance that mmn is Linley.And even easier if you know he married two Linleys.

Claire, tell me where you found Jean.

Good luck with finding any deaths amongst the children.

Come back if you want more help.

Just to add, Janey says it's impossible on Genes to show two siblings marrying the same wife/husband. On FTM it is possible to easily record two brothers marrying two sisters. I have it happening FOUR times in my family. I am not selling FTM, my version is 2004 I think.

HI I HAVE ONLY JUST FOUND MY COUSIN ON FACEBOOK AND ASKED HIM HE IS GOING TO TALK TO NAN AND SEE WHAT SHE CAN FIND OUT ABOUT THE FAMILY, ALSO I FOUND JEAN ON FREEBMD SHE WAS BORN IN JUNE 1941.
I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL YOUR HELP AND AM NOW TRYING TO FIND BRIAN AND AM WONDERING IF THIS COULD BE SPELT DIFFERENTLY OR BE HIS MIDDLE NAME INSTED
THANK YOU TO BOTH JANEY AND MEG I WILL KEPP YOU POSTED NOW ALL I HAVE TO DO IS FIND THE REST OF MY FAMILY (WILLIAM HEDLEY BOOTH AND ALICE MAY CAUSLEY AND WALTER AND LAURA FAXON

There's just no trace of him that I can see -- and almost all the other children didn't have middle names, and I don't see a Harrison-Linley birth with middle initial B. Odd one.

Don't forget to do the tree searches here. You may find someone who knows something. And cross your fingers for what your cousin learns.

hi i just googled herbert harrison and this is what came up on another family tree website

Herbert Harrison (b. Abt. 1890, d. Abt. 1960)
Herbert Harrison (son of Thomas Harrison and Sarah) was born Abt. 1890 in Harthill, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England, and died Abt. 1960. He married Gertrude Fanny Linley.

More About Herbert Harrison:
Fact 1: Born at Greystock Street, Sheffield..
Fact 2: Went to Harthill Council School.
Fact 3: Was a miner @ Kiverton Park Colliery.
Fact 4: Trainer of Harthill Football Club.

Children of Herbert Harrison and Gertrude Fanny Linley are:

1. Joyce Harrison.
2. J Harrison.
3. D Harrison.
4. W Harrison.
5. G Harrison.
6. B Harrison.
7. A Harrison.
8. J Harrison.
9. Grace Harrison, b. 30 May 1920, Anston, Yorkshire, England d. 23 Oct 1978, Lytham St. Annes, Lancashire, England

as you can see in the list of children there is a b harrison ? maybe its not brian but something else begining with b ?