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All the information I have has been given to me by my grandmother , John and Gerts grandaughter.. I have been able to find the grave of John and Gert and so had the DOD, I then traced their marriage and approx births.I have traced all their children. I know only by HEARSAY that John was born in Ireland and had been married before. But no places or names where known. Johns mother was always KNOWN as LIzzie by the family and married a man named Curley , my grandmother supplied all the names of her "Curley" uncles and remembered they all live in Holliday Street Birmingham.There were a lot of Curleys on the same street all cousins and relatives, but as she said at the age of 90 means the information may not be 100% correct . I am sorry if it has been confusing, I am new to this and have hit a lot of problems when doing my tree and rreally do appreciate any help that is given :)

...I am getting more confused by the hour...

You know "John Hennigan" married Gert Thornton...If you get his marriage Cert then his fathers name will be on it also the address of where he was living at the time of the Marriage.
2. If you can get someone..(or yourself if you have Ancestry) to check who was living on William Street 1901...(Place of Birth given for Amy...1911 Census) maybe John H. (Mistranscribed will show up).
3. I thought you had found Lizzie and Mr.Curley on the Census..( if not how do you know the children you have found are theirs ?)
4. If John was born in Ireland then that does not correspond with details on 1911 Census.
1881 Census Beak St.
Household Record 1881 British Census

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Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James HENIGAN Head M Male 43 Ireland Bricklayers Labourer
Mary HENIGAN Wife M Female 46 Ireland
Charles HENIGAN Son U Male 18 Ireland Spoon Polisher (...)
Mary HENIGAN Daur U Female 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Spoon Polisher (...)
Thos. HENIGAN Son U Male 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England Chandelier Polisher
John HENIGAN Son Male 10 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Kate HENIGAN Daur Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Joseph HENIGAN Son Male 4 Birmingham, Warwick, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 16 Beak St
Census Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Family History Library Film 1341713
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2979 / 104
Page Number 16

So-does it look like John was Jane's illegitimate son?
1881 Ancestry
Name: Jane Hennigon
[Jane Hennigan]
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Catherine
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address: 10 Beak St
Occupation: Spoon Polisher (WMTL)
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Thomas
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine Hennigon 40
John Hennigon 17
Jane Hennigon 19
Catherine Hennigon 14
>>>>>>John Hennigon 2
Annie Underhill 22
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2979; Folio: 102; Page: 12

Maureen

(PS note Beak Street)

I am so confused!! Does this tie in at all??
Marriages Mar 1888
CURLEY Thomas Birmingham 6d 237
HANIGAN Jane Birmingham 6d 237

1911 census transcription details for: 5 House 3court Holliday Street Birmingham

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN18105 RG78PN1098 RD384 SD4 ED2 SN225


Reg. District: Birmingham Sub District: St Martin
Parish: Birmingham Enum. District: 2
Address: 5 House 3court Holliday Street Birmingham
County: Warwickshire

CURLEY, Thomas Husband Married
30 years M 52 1859 Spoon And Fork Polisher Birmingham Warwick
CURLEY, Jane Wife Married F 49 1862 Char Wowan Birmingham Warwick
CURLEY, Jane Daughter Single F 19 1892 Birmingham Warwick
CURLEY, Jonah Son Single M 13 1898 School Birmingham Warwick
CURLEY, Michael Son Single M 11 1900 School Birmingham Warwick
CURLEY, William Son Single M 9 1902 School Birmingham Warwick
CURLEY, Bernard Son Single M 8 1903 School Birmingham Warwick
CURLEY, Peter Son Single M 6 1905 School Birmingham Warwick
CURLEY, Martin Son Single M 1 1910 Birmingham Warwick


Maureen

My Nan was raised by John and Gert and called them mom and dad, so the Lizzie was her "nanny lizzie" for the first few years till she learned who her mom was but still called them mom and dad all her life. I have mentioned in the above post I hadn't found the curley's in the census.I have rechecked this morning and none of the Curley's living in Birmingham at the time of 1901 census have a John Hennigan living with them,by 1911 he was married.
Would John's name definately be on his wedding certificate if he was dead, or would I have more chance of getting information from his birth certificate ?
Thankyou

John's fathers name will be on his MC to Gert.?
Could it not be that your gran when referring to "Lizzie" was actually talking about Gert.E.
Which Census have you found the Curley's..?

If I got John's birth certificate from Birmingham would it tell me where his parents were from.I am wondering now if his father was killed in this country unless his mother came over when she was preganant, as he was born in th UK not Ireland as I had been told..Looking at my tree Lizzie and her husband only had one living child and then she married a curley so I need to search for Lizzie Curley after 1880 living with a John Hennigan as her son in Birmingham.I had said that i have found registers of the Curley's , I haven't.I have been tidying up my tree these past few days and have looked at that many birth registers I am getting confused..LOL.
Once again I am going on hear say with the names but they are Peter,Martin,Agnes,Bernard,Ginny,Tom. My Gran used to call them all Uncle when she was small.
I am off to Birmingham Registry today to find a couple of birth certificates if I can.

Hi Lynette ,keen to help so trying to unravel some of what you have written.

Your John Hennigan was born 1880, he married twice and died in 1956?

His mother was Lizzie and after John's dad died in Ireland she married a Curley in Birmingham ? You have found some /all of their children ? You could get one of their certs and see what info it gives you.

what is it you want to find out ? Where he was born? Where he is in 1901 ? On 1911 census his nationality is down as British so was he definitely born here ?

It seems like the marriages and deaths others have found appear to be correct
Do you know when John's dad died ? It may be on his marriage cert to Eliza or Gertrude as father of groom (deceased)

Was lizzie Curley in Birmingham and from when ?
All the best
Vanessa

The info is from my Nan,(John's grandaughter)and her husband . She always called John's mom Lizzie, thats why I am unsure of the actual name. I am not certain but have just phoned my nan and she said that Lizzie married her second husband here in Birmingham..I don't know John's fathers name. Is there anyway to trace/get John's birth certicate if he was born in Ireland, if I don't know the parish..I think thats the only way I'll get his parents name.

Lynette...Where does the info.re Johns father come from and what was his name..?
Did Lizzie (mother of John) marry Mr Curley in Ireland..?

I am not sure about anything regards John's arrival in Birmingham. I was told by his daughter that her dad was bought to ireland when he was a young boy.I have checked in regards to the two children and was told there were children who died as babies, from both marriages. The name of first wife is unknown and was never talked about.I do not know where they came from in Ireland, I only know they were devout catholic..
They did live in Holiday Street Birmingham from very early on during the married life.

Lynette...Have you considered the Marriage of John to Eliz.Guy June 1903...
She died March 1908 also reg.Ellen Elizabeth aged 3.

Lynette...Are you saying Johns father was killed in Ire.?
If so where abouts did they come from..?
If John (1880) married for the 2nd time to Gert. and was in B/Ham and married with children by 1911 then the 2 children Amy and Annie had to be from the first marriage...look at Gerts.age 1911

Have you tried finding the family in Ireland ? Are you sure about John being in Birmingham from 1900 ?

Best wishes Vanessa

Hi , thanks for all the help. All I know about John hennigan is he was born 1880 and died 1956. His father died in ireland and was killed on duty as a policeman. His mother was known as Lizzie, and after being married to John she was married to a man named Curley and they had many children all of whom I have found on the census.
I think my next step is to get John's (1880) birth certificate.

Lynette..If you look at the 1881 Census you will find James Henigan (Ire) and family..son John aged 10years..living Beek Street....
This corresponds with the Beek Street next to John's name on the 1911 Census..(Not the address where he is living)

Many thanks for all the help, Gertrude was from Highley and John was married before.
It has bought up two names, Amy and Annie as daughters which no one has any recollection off...Weird...My only concern is the name is mispelt, but I suppose that could be a transcription error as it is Hennigan with two "n"'s...

This looks like Gertrude but you would need to buy the marriage cert to confirm her fathers name

1901 England Census
about Gertrude E Thornton
Name: Gertrude E Thornton
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Fanny
Gender: Female
Where born: Highley, Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Highley
Ecclesiastical parish: Highley St Mary
Town: Highley
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Cleobury Mortimer
Sub-registration district: Stottesden
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 66
Household Members: Name Age
John Thornton 42
Fanny Thornton 33
Gertrude E Thornton 11
John F Thornton 9
Harold E Thornton 8
Florence M Thornton 5
Adelaide Thornton 3


Hmmm maybe not as she has a middle intial here????

This could be Johns first marriage which didnt last long

Marriages Jun 1903 (>99%)
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Duddy Thomas Birmingham 6d 349
Guy Eliza Birmingham 6d 349
Hennigan John Birmingham 6d 349
IVERS Catherine Birmingham 6d 349

x

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1911 census transcription details for: 222 Wattville Street Handsworth

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN17206 RG78PN1059 RD371 SD1 ED1 SN386


Reg. District: West Bromwich Sub District: Handsworth
Parish: Handsworth Enum. District: 1
Address: 222 Wattville Street Handsworth
County: Staffordshire

HENIGAN, John Head Married M 31 1880 Cycle Worker Polisher Beek St Birmingham
HENIGAN, Gertrude Wife Married F 21 1890 Highley Salop
HENIGAN, Amy Daughter Single F 10 1901 William St Birmingham
HENIGAN, Annie Daughter Single F 9 1902 St Martin Birmingham
HENIGAN, Ivy Daughter Single F 1 1910 Walsall St Handsworth


Maureen