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i have just received the marriage cert. of mary ann pleasant, unfortunately there is no named father on the cert. The marriage took place in the district of Thorne, residence at the time of marriage was Crowle and she was aged 22 years in 1885. Witnesses at the time were a William L Lambert and Eleanor R Brown.

So it looks like Elizabeth Pleasant/Pleasance was never married in fact so she wasn't a widow, that just looked more respectable on the census.

We aren't seeing any definite way to connect that household up with Sarah Jane Pleasant supposedly the daughter of George Pleasant and Sarah Thorp.

Maybe if we think or search a little harder, lol.

I still wonder if Sarah Thorp wasn't really Sarah Pleasant a daughter of Elizabeth, maybe Thorp was her father's name, or the father of her daughter Sarah Jane, and she just made up the relationships to make it look like she was married when she registered the birth.

deleted message because of the problems with posting, it is in the next message below

that message posted only partially again and this is getting very troublesome. I copied it to clipboard and will try it again. I think I know, it was the pointy brackets used for pointers that made part of it disappear so I will take them out.




This is the Sarah J that I mentioned in 1901. I think she is Sarah Jane Pleasant with daughter Alice Mary Pleasant.

Name: Sarah J Welsh
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Crowle, Lincolnshire, England

Civil parish: Great Grimsby
Town: Great Grimsby
County/Island: Lincolnshire

John Welsh 35
Sarah J Welsh 29
Alice M Welsh 7 ...... born in Crowle


These are Sarah Jane Pleasants and her daughter Alice Mary Pleasants and Sarah Jane is living as the wife of John Welsh although they were not married.

In 1911 John Welsh born 1865 in Bromley is living in Grimsby but no Sarah or Alice is living with him.



Then in 1891 there is the Sarah Jane Pleasant that Patricia posted on page 2


Name: Sarah Jane Pleasant
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Crowle, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Carlton in Lindrick
Town: Carlton
County/Island: Nottinghamshire

Joseph Skelton 46
Emma Jefferson 47
Annie Jefferson 20
William Henry Parks 30
Alfred Oulrans 23
Sarah Jane Pleasant 17



then in 1881 the household in Crowle


Name: Sarah Jane Plesance
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Crowle, Lincoln, England

Civil parish: Crowle
County/Island: Yorkshire

Elizabeth Plesance 59
Mary Ann Plesance 14
Sarah Jane Plesance 8



and before that they were living with the Ramsays in Crowle


Name: Elizabeth Pleasent
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Narford, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Crowle
Town: Crowle
County/Island: Lincolnshire

John Ramsay 60
Sarah Ramsay 64
Richard Warden 39
John Odnot 43
Charles Mann 29
Elizabeth Pleasent 39
Mary Ann Pleasent 9
Betsy Pleasent 12
George Alcock 40



These must be the births of Elizabeth's daughters Betsy and Mary Ann


Births Jun 1861
PLEASANTS Elizabeth Norwich 4b 97

Births Mar 1864
PLEASANTS Mary Ann Bowen Norwich 4b 122


I'm not sure whether these births have been posted here before. The Bowen looks like Mary Ann's mother, if they were married, or father, if they werent, was a Bowen. there isnt any Bowen-Pleasants marriage (or variation of Pleasants).


I think these are the right people and I think this is the closest you will get to sorting them out. George Pleasants and Sarah Thorp, I think those names just were not real.

But on sarah janes birth certificate it shows her mother as being sarah not elizabeth.

Also i have just been looking in the 1861 census for John Ramsey (the people they were living with in 1871) John Ramsey born 1811 residing in Crowle, Thorne, and i noticed on the page a James Thorp, born Crowle aged 67, i wonder if this is sarah janes mother's father as on sarah janes birth certificateit shows her mother as sarah previously Thorp. I will do some more research on this James Thorp

hi marie
hope this helps
sarah ellen cundall b1831 married in 1851to george pheasant b.1829
they had 4 children alfred 1853
charles 1855
annie 1859
and emily 1864

hi marie
hope this helps
sarah ellen cundall b1831 married in 1851to george pheasant b.1829
they had 4 children alfred 1853
charles 1855
annie 1859
and emily 1864

Kevin it has been over a year since Marie posted in this thread, she is quite likely not looking for updates

if you click on her name you can send her a private message to let her know the information you have posted here, if her email address is current in her account at this site she will get a notice

you might also want to explain where your information came from ?

no notice is sent of replies in threads

I hope that helps

by the way Kevin I posted that marriage near the beginning on page 1

and the children Charles Annie and Emily are also shown on page 1 in the 1871 census

but if you did read through the thread, which I know is confusing, I think we don't think these are the people in question or related to this family


( when I posted here before my 'boardname' was my OH because it was his account in case anybody is confused ! )