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OPR marriages for Bryce Girvan

29/10/1721 GIRVAN BRYCE NICHOLAS HAMILTON/FR272 M KIRKOSWALD /AYR

14/10/1819 GIRVAN BRYCE JANE WILSON/FR377 M STRAITON /AYR

2 deaths

13/03/1747 GIRVAN BRYCE M KIRKOSWALD /AYR

19/11/1802 GIRVAN BRYCE M KIRKOSWALD /AYR

neither death gives any details

I looked for Bryce Girvan born Ayrshire on Scotland'sPeople OPRs......there were 4 recorded

29/05/1715 GIRVAN BRYCE HUGH GIRVAN/ M KIRKOSWALD /AYR

21/02/1747 GIRVAN BRYCE JOHN GIRVAN/ M KIRKOSWALD /AYR

09/09/1791 GIRVAN BRYCE ROBERT GIRVAN/ M KIRKOSWALD /AYR

28/10/1835 GIRVAN BRYCE WILLIAM GIRVAN/MARION TEMPLETON FR578 M KIRKMICHAEL (AYR) /AYR

Good stuff.

So they had two kids, per the records in the IGI:


British Isles
Father: Bryce Girvan, Mother: Isabella

1. JANE GIRVAN Christening: 10 JAN 1794 Maybole, Ayr, Scotland
2. MARGARET GIRVAN Christening: 31 DEC 1795 Maybole, Ayr, Scotland

The IGI also has a submitted record of a Bryce Girvan "of Kilmaurs" born c1797, married to Jean Wilson.


Could this be father Bryce in 1841??

Name: Bryce Girvan
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1781
Where born: Ayrshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Kilmaurs
County: Ayrshire
Address: Beneridge Side
Occupation: Independent

Bryce Girvan 60
Marion Girvan 15
Jean Girvan 9
Margaret Girvan 18
Helen Mccartney 31


Those grandchildren, if that they are, could be children of a Bryce married to a Jean.


One might also wonder whether Margaret had another brother -- unless Bryce was just a very popular name!

Name: William Girvan
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Where born: Ayrshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Old Cumnock
County: Ayrshire
Address: Watston
Occupation: Farmer

William Girvan 30
Marrian Girvan 25
Bryce Girvan 5
Janet Girvan 3
Elizabeth Girvan 1
Lance Templeton 15
Alex Ferguson 15
Lance Mccartney 10


1851:

William Girvan 45
Marion Girvan 38
Bryce Girvan 13
Janet Girvan 11
Eliza Girvan 9
Marion Girvan 7
William Girvan 6
Jean Girvan 4
Margt Girvan 2
Margret Braly 18

Information from the death certificate mentioned above


Margaret Stoddart widow of Walter Stoddart died 04/06/1881 aged 83....daughter of Bryce (Farmer) and Isabella Girvan ms Gray (both deceased) .......cert was signed by Thomas Todd (nephew)

That's what I meant there, Margaret, the night shift. ;)

It's nearly 6 pm now "here" for me, which is nearly 11 pm for most of the regulars; we Canadians overlap with you upside downers a little more, at least we night owl (or Western) Canadians do.

If you do find out who this Thomas Stoddart is, let us know, we're always curious!

Good morning Margaret :-)

You're very welcome,

Hope we are on the right track... let us know how you get on!

Kind regards,

Cathy

Thank you all so very much this is amazing and I will follow up on the suggestions you have given here and the message about find a grave in the USA. You may not realize that our time zone is very different from yours so it is 9 a.m here now and that is why I hadn't been back! Thanks again.
Margaret

That's the only Margaret Stoddart I could find born in Ayrshire in the 1841 Census Janey.

Perhaps Thomas is another Brother in Law ???

Hope Margaret comes back to the thread!

Cathy

I had also wondered about this for son John in 1851:

Name: John Stoddart
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish or Township: St Saviour
County/Island: Jersey
Country: Channel Islands

Occupation: Private, 26th Regiment

He is residing at [?] Guard House.


http://anglochinesewar42.com/index.php?p=1_13_26th-REGIMENT-OF-FOOT

1845 Ireland
1849 Ireland, Cork. Guard of Honour Visit of Queen Victoria.
> 1850 Gibraltar (Depot Companies Jersey, C.I.)
1853 Canada


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=392133.0

"In 1851 the 26th Foot was stationed in Gibraltar but its depot was at Fort Regent, St Helier, Jersey."


PS, to Cathy's note below -- I think Margaret is on the night shift. ;)

Cathy, I had ruled out that Margaret Stoddart because she is married to a Thomas Stoddart. Our Margaret was said to have been married to Walter, and he was said to have died in the US.

But she is the indeed the only likely-looking person in Ayrshire -- I'd missed her in 1881 and that seems conclusive? -- so it looks like she didn't remarry after all??


I'm still not sure of the source of Margaret's info, e.g. about Walter's name and death.

Year Surname / Forename /Maiden Name/ Sex Age District City/County/MR GROS Data Image Extract
1881 STODDART MARGARET GIRVAN F 83 INCH /WIGTOWN 886/00 0017 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

1881 Census
Name: Margaret Studdard
Age: 83
Estimated birth year: abt 1798
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Maybole, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 886
Registration district: Inch
Civil parish: Inch
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Kirminnoch Farm House
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 51
Line: 13
Roll: cssct1881_333
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Studdard 83
Elizabeth Dorman

1871 Census
Name: Margaret Stoddart
Age: 73
Estimated birth year: abt 1798
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Maybole, Ayr
Registration Number: 886
Registration district: Inch
Civil parish: Inch
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Kirminnoch Cottages
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 10
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1871_189
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Stoddart 73

1861 Census
Name: Margaret Stoddart
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1801
Relationship: Sister-in-law
Gender: Female
Where born: Maybole, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 886
Registration district: Inch
Civil parish: Inch
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Kirminnoch
Occupation: Fund Holder
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 12
Line: 16
Roll: CSSCT1861_148
Household Members: Name Age
William Todd 45
Mary Todd 42
William Todd 16
Isabella Todd 14
John Todd 13
Thomas Todd 11
Agnes Todd 9
Hugh Todd 7
Alexander Todd 6
Mary Grace Todd 3
Margaret Stoddart 60
Agnes Mcwhinnie 45
Jannet Gray 30
Mary Lownie 18
Arthur Devan 16

1851 Census
Name: Margaret Stoddart
Age: 56
Estimated birth year: abt 1795
Relationship: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Maybole, Ayrshire
Parish Number: 886
Civil parish: Inch
County: Wigtownshire
Address: Kirminnoch
Occupation: Annuitant
ED: 7
Page: 15 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 42
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1851_215
Household Members: Name Age
William Todd 35
Mary Todd 30
William Todd 6
Isabella Todd 4
John Todd 3
Thomas Todd 1
Agnes Mcwhinnie 35
Margaret Stoddart 56
Mary Allan 25
Jane Herron 24
Sarah Jamieson 22
Jannet Gray 19
Robert Blain 20

1841 Census???
Name: Margaret Stoddart
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1796
Gender: Female
Where born: Ayrshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Old Cumnock
County: Ayrshire
Address: Village
Parish Number: 610
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thos Stoddart 50
Margaret Stoddart 45

If she died in Scotland after 1855, you can search for her death under any surname that she was known by. In Scotland a female death is index by maiden surname and any or all (if stated on the death entry by the informant) married surnames.

I wonder whether this could be Margaret in 1841, under her second married surname. Just a wild guess for now.


Name: Margaret Porteous
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1801
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: Kilmarnock
County: Ayrshire
Address: Brachead
Occupation: Independent

Margaret Porteous 40
Jessie Porteous 14
James Porteous 12
> Margaret Stoddart 13
Jane Millar 11
Jessie Millar 8
Catherine Mccormick 50
Margt Gemmell 18


In 1851:

Name: Margt Porteous
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1796
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Arrow, Bateshire
Parish Number: 597
Civil parish: Kilmarnock
Town: Kilmk
County: Ayrshire
Address: London Road Portesou's Land
Occupation: Annuitant

Margt Porteous 55
Jessie L Porteous 24
Jas Porteous 22
Jane G Patson 27
James Kerr 26


Completely wild guess, though.

Phew. Found them!! The boys, anyway.

1841 Scottish census

William Mcwhinnie 58
William Mcwhinnie 30
Agnes Mcwhinnie 23
Mary Mcwhinnie 20
Mary Campbell 16
Hugh Pitt 26
> Bryce Stodarl 16
> Richard Stodarl 14
> John Stodarl 12
John Hughes 12
Jean Mcconnel 18
Maria Galiver 18

Civil parish: Maybole
County: Ayrshire
Address: Fisherton

Name: Bryce Stodarl
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Where born: Ireland
Occupation: Mercht Ap

Name: Richard Stodarl
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Where born: Ireland
Occupation: Ag S

Name: John Stodarl
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Where born: Ireland


That could start to answer some questions.


Searching in the IGI for births to Walter Stoddart + Margaret


WILLIAM STODDART
Birth: 30 SEP 1823 Kirkintilloch, Dunbarton, Scotland
Father: WALTER STODDART
Mother: MARGARET RISK
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
Batch No.: C114987


There is a Walter Stoddart birth to a James Stoddart (no mother named) in 1829 in Kirkintilloch as well, in that batch.

The Walter Stoddart + Margaret Risk marriage was 1808 Barony, Lanark. This could be a different couple, or perhaps a first marriage for Walter.

Okay here is what I know, the family was in USA between 1825 and 1827 at least as the boys were born there they returned to scotland grew up there Bryce Stodddart died there Kirkbride area( not sure where he fits with the other 2) John Walter Stoddart born 02.02.1827was employed on land in Ayrshire came to New Zealand in about 1849 and visited back to Scotland in 1894. We have a letter he wrote from there, his brother Richard born abt 1825 followed him out to New Zealand in the 1850's I think he had been in Queen Victoria's guards. So I guess they were in Scotland about 20 years. I tried to find them in Vermont information but there did not seem to be any births or death relating to Stoddart. I think the census things I have looked at only were for England and Wales so not any good. I did manage to find Kirminnoch on google and saw a photo of the farm and did a 'fly over' of the area which was very interesting going up to Fisherton Farm and Girvan. I am just stuck as to how to get any further back so any ideas would be a help. Thank you for your interest.
Margaret Hunt nee Stoddart
New Zealand

The above was me, deleting when meant to edit.


Your other thread relates to Walter Stoddart:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1222893

As I've explained there, separate threads will inevitably lead to duplicated effort.

Please do use this thread, and give any and all info you have, e.g.

When they were in the US
What the sons' names were
When the sons went to New Zealand
How long, and when, the sons were in Scotland before going to NZ
-- or at least some approximate ideas

What searching you have done, e.g.

US censuses, to see what info is there re dates and places of birth
Scottish censuses, for the same info

And a little more. ;)

Would the sons have been with her in a census in Scotland? Their names?

When did she return to Scotland from the US?

Also, knowing more about where Kirminnoch is helps.
From www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk :

Populated place Kirminnoch
Description
An inhabited place in the parish of Kirkcolm
Related Places
located within Wigtown District
located within Kirkcolm Parish

Anybody unfamilar wtih Scottish geography, like me, still doesn't know the county, unfortunately. ;)

Thank you.
I think she was born in or near Kirminnoch Scotland, her sons were born 1825 and 27 so I guess she was born about 1800 Her birth surname was Girvan, the problem is I don't know her surname at death or where she was married as Walter Stoddart came from either Scotland or Northern Ireland and died in Vermont when the boys were small.
Thank you again for your interest.
Margaret

Can you give some more details that could be used to help you?

About when was she born, and where?

Is Girvan her birth surname?

She would have remarried as Stoddart? You can look for a marriage at Scotland's Peple -- it's pay-per-view, once you find a likely result, but not expensive:

www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Have you looked for her in the 1881 census in the area where she lived? It's free at
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/group/ukicen/UK+Census+Collection.aspx
and at
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?
PAGE=census/search_census.asp
(copy and paste back together, but I recommend Ancestry)

If Girvan wasn't her name when she died, it would be kind of pointless for someone else to start searching for her. ;)

I'm not quite understanding how you know her date of death, but not her name at the time of her death (i.e. her second husband's surname?).

I would like information on my great x3 grandmother, she married Walter Stoddart went to USA then returned and lived at Kirminnoch near Castle Kennedy in Scotland following Walter's death. Her 2 sons came out to New Zealand. She remarried but to who? Would also like to know her date of birth etc. Thanks.