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A brother for Margaret

13/10/1798 GIRVAN JOHN BRYCE GIRVAN/ISBEL GRAY FR464 M MAYBOLE /AYR

Thanks to your help, I have found Walter's photo of his grave in New York on find a grave and all that it says adds up with what I know. The cences 1841 with the 3 boys on looks like them as John said he went to school in Dunure and visited his mother's house at Fisherton farm, I can't figure why she is not in that one and it is a mystery as to the 'groom' she is reported to have married in the family tree I have. I have her in Memorial card Margaret Girvan relit of Walter Stoddart which I have learnt today is how they put things then, also there are cousins mentioned in John's visit and he bought land in New Zealand via a Todd cousin so that adds up too. It would seem highly likely that Bryce and Isabella were her parents as Bryce is very common in my family including my father. I am now looking for the boys births in Ireland and Bryce's death in Kirkbride Scotland and maybe now I have a name the grandmother also in Kirkbride. I don't think the John Stoddart in the 1851 census is probably him as he would have been 24 and I have a John Stoddart on a ship into Dunedin New Zealand in 1849 where he married in 1854 but thanks any way;
Margaret

Thanks to your super sleuthing I have found a connection between who the boys were living with in 1841 census and Margaret in 1861,71 and 81, there is an Agnes Mcwhinnie consistently in all of them, there is also ?her sister Mary who appears to turn into Mary Todd who had a son Thomas who signed the death certificate, and in the 1861 Margaret was recorded as sister in law so perhaps her sister Jane married William Mcwhinnie aged 58 in 1841 but where she was at this time I don't know, the Thomas one does not seem to add up but is the right age and he could be brother in law. Would anyone be able to look up a wedding for Thomas born about 1790 or Jane Girvan 1793 possibly to William Mcwhinnie. I am certain I have found Walter's grave in USA so am working on his birth in Scotland it said he came from Airlie which I found in Angus and the boys in the census say born in Ireland not USA as we thought although must have been very young to have got to USA before their father died.
Margaret

Inch, Wigtownshire, Scotland
TODD, Thomas Christening
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 17 Mar 1850
Christening Date: 7 Apr 1850
Father: William TODD
Mother: Mary MCWHINNIE

Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland Christening
MCWHINNIE, William
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 15 Jul 1805
Father: William MCWHINNIE
Mother: Isabel GRAY

Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
MCWHINNIE, Isbelle Christening
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 23 Feb 1809
Father: William MCWHINNIE
Mother: Isbale GRAA

Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
MCWHINNIE, Agnes Christening
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 1 May 1811
Father: William MCWHINNIE
Mother: Isabel GRAY

Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
MCWHINNIE, Mary Christening
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 14 Feb 1815
Father: William MCWHINNIE
Mother: Isabel GRAY

Inch, Wigtownshire, Scotland
TODD, William Christening
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 1 Dec 1844
Father: William TODD
Mother: Mary MCWHINNIE

Inch, Wigtownshire, Scotland
TODD, John Christening
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 28 Feb 1848
Christening Date: 26 Mar 1848
Father: William TODD
Mother: Mary MCWHINNIE

Inch, Wigtownshire, Scotland
TODD, Agnes Gibson Mcwhinnie Christening
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 6 Nov 1851
Christening Date: 11 Dec 1851
Father: William TODD
Mother: Mary MCWHINNIE

Inch, Wigtownshire, Scotland
TODD, Hugh Christening
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 13 May 1853
Christening Date: 13 Jun 1853
Father: William TODD
Mother: Mary MCWHINNIE

Kirkoswald, Ayrshire, Scotland
GIRVAN, Bryce Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 9 Sep 1791
Father: Robert GIRVAN


Kirkmichael, Ayrshire, Scotland Marriage
GIRVAN, William
Wife: Marion TEMPLETON
Marriage Date: 5 Jan 1835


Kirkmichael, Ayrshire, Scotland
GIRVAN, Bryce Christening
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 8 Oct 1835
Christening Date: 28 Oct 1835
Father: William GIRVAN
Mother: Marion TEMPLETON

Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, Scotland
PORTEOUS, Janet Stoddart
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 13 Mar 1827
Father: James PORTEOUS
Mother: Margaret STODDART


Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, Scotland
PORTEOUS, James
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 31 Dec 1828
Father: James PORTEOUS
Mother: Margaret STODDART

Thanks again for your work for me while I was sleeping!
Well well well it looks like Margaret Girvan's mother Isabella Gray remarried Mr McWhinnie and had several more children perhaps it was the boys step grandfather they did not get on with rather than step father. I am not sure about the Porteous connection I will have to investigate that line further.
Margaret

Just thought I would let my 'helpers' know that I have found Margaret (nee Girvan) Stoddart in the 1841 census. I found a spreadsheet version for the area where the boys were then and there in a different house on the same fisherton farm was Hodart Margaret aged 40 with an 80 year old man so I have been able to rule out the Portous and Thomas Stoddart lines of inquiry. I have also found her mother's and presumably step father's grave in the same area, Maybole they have a very good website.
Margaret

Interesting! -- we do all like to hear how things come out, so don't hesitate to post more. It isn't out of the question that someone related might recognize names some day, too. That happened recently with someone researching an English famiy in Quebec in the early 1800s -- I figured out they'd come from Warwickshire and found them there after their return to England, and not long after, a GR member descended from that same family in Warwickshire, an earlier generation, spotted the thread! It's kind of rare, but it's been known to happen. ;)

Thanks to all your help and some further reading up on details I now have 3 more generations, Margaret Girvan's parents and grandparents, and can tie in Aileens Bryce Girvan's and also how we are related to the Tam O Shanter family, Margaret Girvan's mother was sister of the Douglas Gray it was based on, I worked backwards from those who have him on this site, and they came up with the connection so thanks again for the help.
Margaret

Hello again
Since you did such a good job on Margaret Girvan I am wondering please if you might be able to help with more info on her husband Walter Stoddart who I got one reply about and was able to find his grave in New York state USA. He died 16.09.1828 it says he was 27 and a native of Airlie Scotland. The 1841 census says their sons were born in Ireland if so they must have gone from there to USA between Feb 1827 and Sept 1828 when he died. I have not found any marriage details for him and Margaret Girvan which I would have assumed would be in the Maybole area early 1820's, I did find something but he was too old from the age of my ones death. Any suggestions anybody. Thanks again from the middle of winter -5 this morning her in New Zealand.
Margaret

How clear is the "Airlie" that you have? Airlie is in County of Angus but there is a Walter christened about the right time, with a father Richard in Airth, Stirlingshire.

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles


WALTER STODDART Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 24 AUG 1800 Airth, Stirling, Scotland


Parents:
Father: RICHARD STODDART Family
Mother: MARGARET BAAD


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Thank you for your help.
I have now peered at the headstone photo and cannot be sure that it may not be Airth, the transcription says Airlie but there is moss growing on it and I can only see Air and a tall letter. I guess perhaps looking again for the marriage might help if it has any details. I did find one on 16.1.1818 in Lesmahagow Lanak, which is not too far from Maybole where she came from, Scotland but somehow didn't write down the site it was on and haven't been able to get back to it to try and find who he married if it was Margaret Girvan or not, their eldest son was born about 1823.
Margaret

I think that this is the marriage you were thinking of - from www.familysearch.org


Wrong spouse and Lesmahagow is not really that near to Maybole.


IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles

WALTER STODDART Pedigree
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: JEAN CUMMING Family
Marriage: 16 JAN 1818 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland



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Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.



Also, that Walter was still having children in Scotland in the 1830s


Results for: All Countries
Father: Walter Stoddart, Mother: Jean Cumming
Exact Spelling: Off


International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 5
Select records to download - (50 maximum)

1. ELISABETH STODDART - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 09 AUG 1818 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

2. MARTHA STODHART - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 12 MAR 1835 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

3. AGNES STODDART - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 21 APR 1821 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

4. CATHERINE STODDART - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 27 JAN 1833 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

5. JANE STODHART - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 07 OCT 1827 Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

Thank you again, this is not them so I will eliminate that one. I guess it is possible that they married in Ireland not Maybole area which would mean I was looking in the wrong place for the marriage, have had no luck finding the boys births in Irish sites nor USA ones but will keep on and might come up with them sometime.
Margaret

Margaret, The OPRs on Scotlandspeople and the "extracted" records on the IGI are nearly all Church of Scotland records. It may be that your ancestors were members of a different church and their marriage and the births were recorded elsewhere.

Thanks to all your help last year I have made good progress but would like some help with 3 things I have been unable to sort out please.

Margaret Girvan's marriage to Walter Stoddart must have been between 1815 and 1823 given their ages and date of first born? What date and where? She was from Maybole Ayr and he Airth Stirling and it appears they may have been in the Maybole area following their marriage.

Their son John Walter Stoddart 2.2.1827 place of birth. My family believed this was Vermont USA, in the 1841 scottish census it lists he and his brothers as born in Ireland ( it is hearsay that their father was a gardener there at some stage) a distant relative has the 2 brothers Richard and Bryce as born in Carrick (shore) Ayrshire, Carrick is in the same area as Maybole so I think the shore might be wrong as it is much futher south according to Google. I might have found them on New York passenger lists but couldn't find the date which if he was born prior to this would have to be between February 1827 and September 1828 when their father died. Of course I also don't rule out that he was born en route to USA but have no idea how to look for that.

Also any ideas on finding if there is a family tree (would be from New Zealand nothing on this site)for his brother Richard Stoddart 1825 married Marion Gibb in 1863 in Waihola Otago New Zealand I have found 4 children and know of a ? grandchild Jean Colquhoun 29.12.1897 but cannot connect her to them. People often ask if we are related to other Stoddarts and I have to say maybe they were Rchard's family But we don't know.
Many thanks for your interest
Margaret

Since my last post I have worked on and found the connection for Jean Colquhoun Stoddart but still would like to know more about that family if there is any information anywhere.
Margaret