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Australia is up and awake, and I've been catching up with your work. Well done the two of you.

This might be the grandson's parents.

Marriages Sep 1899
Francis Amy Leigh 8c 459 <<<<<<<<<<<<
Pillinger Frederick William Leigh 8c 459
Smith James Leigh 8c 459
Stowell Alice Leigh 8c 459
Warr William Thomas Leigh 8c 459 <<<<<<<<<<<

No connection to Leyland. I Only know of BI they are on the Pinfold Lane.

She may have mis understood the question..........oh i see what you are saying now.....yes it looks like that may be the case forgot about the 2nd hubby (its getting late!).

Ann

hey no way, that ius uncanny....I tried to do the walk a second time but could not find the start and ended up doing some forest route instead!

and fancy you knowing Buckley Industrial? They were a decent company and always helped me out .

I wonder if Pam got married in 1875 and 2nd Hubby possibly died in 1912 if she misunderstood the question and gave a cumulative figure of 37years?

Moel Famau!.........I see it from my windo every day!

I live about 2mins walk from Buckley industrial

The marriage was 1875

Annx

what a pity it was not a magical discovery!! thanks Ann...
I used to work with a gut from Wrexham called John, his Wife was Ann and he introduced me to the Buckly company, his name was John Leyland...any connection?

The 1901 silvester lot may be a fluke, but was looking at the Frances name..........saw them in 1911 and another Francis sister-in-law is with them.

A few years age difference on census is nothing, you will come across that all the time, when I search i usually do a 3/5 year around the supposed year of birth.

I will delete the francis thread as it may cause confusion.

Annx

Aah right, I thought you said 37years which would fit both marriages together, but not one if Thomas Francis, her frst hubby died in 1894 then it showed her remarried to Williams Downs in 1897...did you see when Pamela Williams married Thomas Francis in Llangollen? what year was that then? I thought I had cracked it then lol....maybe she lied lol

Buckley, I have heard of there, I used to order from a company called Buckley Industrial in my old job, they did Industrial Hoses etc ..I passed the turn off for that today. Im only in Leigh, near Wigan. I did a walk once - Moel Famur & Moel Arthur, is that near you? Very small world : )

Just thinking, this would show Mary Ellen with a 2yr age difference ....and the age of the children do not fit if she was born in 1868..or again, am I looking at something incorrectly coz I am new to this?
: )

Lorraine.............How many years married on the 1911 census.

The 1911 was the first census to include this question, it means how many years married to the person she is with at the time of the census not any previous partners! LOL

Denbigh!!.............I live in Buckley Nr. Mold!

Small World!

Excellent, in my naivity I assumed the cencus took place over a few weeks as it was a mamoth task! This now makes on ediscovery I have VERY POSSIBLE!!! brilliant, thanks

hey don't apologise for taking 10mins haha
you are truly an asset. I am lucky to have your help.
If she married in 1875 then that possibly fills a gap from Ozi. You say the 1911 census household transcription has Pam married for 37years...so, if she was married in 1875 that means her last partner (assuming they add together all married years?) died in 1912. Ozi found two death entries for Pams secons Husband's name and one was 1912, so that should be the one : )

I went to Abergele in Wales which is around 15nins onwards from Denbigh...next time I am going to detour to all the names mentioned in these findings....where are you from Ann?

1801 10th March No longer exists, with a few exceptions
1811 27th May No longer exists, with a few exceptions
1821 28th May No longer exists, with a few exceptions
1831 30th May No longer exists, with a few exceptions
1841 6th June Available
1851 30th March Available
1861 7th April Available
1871 2nd April Available
1881 3rd April Available
1891 5th April Available
1901 31st March Available
1911 2nd April Available


These are the dates the census were taken.........handy to have

So the marriage took place June Quarter which means she married April/May/June........possible yes
Annx

oh right, Joseph Thomas Warr....wonder who he was then? Can't be one of the Sons children, wonder if coz she remarried to William Downs in 1897 if it could be connected to his side??

Sorry lorraine for being so long only i am helping soeone else as well

The marriage I found was 1875


If you google North Wales bmd.........you can search marriage births and deaths in Denbighshire.

There is also Free bmd which has the GRO numbers alongside for ordering.

The NW BMD reference numbers are to order only from denbighshire record offices. You will get the hang of it!! in about 10 years lol

Where did you go in Wales?

Ann

obviously without copies of the marriage certs you cannot 100% be correct, but I reckon the 1891 marriage could be the one in 1891 could be her hence her not showing as living with her parents..however, I have learned in a short space of time that assuming is dangerous! : )

WARR...........is the grandsons surname.

Ann

Is this my posting you are refering to

Well for def there is a Pamela Downs born Ruabon, but not till 1851.

Looking on the North Wales BMD the ONLY Pamela that married a Thomas Francis is a WILLIAMS that marriage took place in Llangollen

Annx

Edit | Delete | Add

Many many thanks....what does Warr mean?

As for the Roberts idea, it does sound feasible now Ozi mentions it, espcially witht he Roberts Nephew living there in 1861 and then the age of the baby co-inciding with th eage of Hugh in 1891. Ozi found Hugh Williams registered as a birth in Wrexham in 1871 hence then when the cenus was done he was possibly 1mnth old and Pam did not know what to register him as as she was not wed? Still does not tell us where mary ellen was aged 3 though unless she stayed with Ann & John Williams (Pams parents?)

I think I will pay and subscribe to the Ancestry website instead if relying on the library - as it is times like now when I am stumped and rely on others to kindly search : )

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Sep 1897 (>99%)
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Ellis Margaret Wrexham 11b 432
Francis Mary Ellen Wrexham 11b 432
Jarvis John Wrexham 11b 432
Richards William Wrexham 11b 432

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Jun 1891 (>99%)
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Charles William Wrexham 11b 475
Francis Mary Ellen Wrexham 11b 475
Maddocks Mary Elizabeth Wrexham 11b 475
Silvester Harry Wrexham 11b 475