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ps Ann, have you ever heard of Pigeon Lane in Ruabon? that is where the Pigeon Inn is listed where mary ellen lived aged 24...I have googled it and found one record but it seems the pub doesn't exists anymore or is renamed?

I thought she couldn't find him but thought she meant for sure under Williams which is why I asked if there was a Hugh Francis then showing in 1901/1911?

It has been nippy today hasn't it! I mowed the lawn earlier and swept the patio and was cold. I have also done the usual boring cleaning chores and have now settled to update the tree and record some findings so my family can make sense of them (me just telling them names/stories every day is driving them mad I think! they need to see it in a printed tree to appreciate it haha).

Your trip away will be nice, and I think she is right not driving alone whilst at 20wks...you on the otherhand will be busy! : )
Oh no, what am I going to do with you gone lol...take your laptop : )

My Mum rang today from Llandudno (she had driven out) and said it was the Victorian Festival...she said it was warm an sunny with blue skies...me thinks she lied haha

Hi Lorraine,

Shopping...........it was freezing in Chester today, I was glad to get home, got most things I needed but daughter and 18month grandson decided to come as well, then son-in-law.......so it sorts of slows you down!

Am going away to Gloucester this week for a wedding and hubby & I are taking 18month old as Mum is a teacher and days of all days she has a parents evening and wont leave school till around 7.30pm so we are going on ahead to settle in hotel feed bathe and bed him! Mum is 20 weeks with second grandchild so her hubby did not want her travelling alone as she suggested.......so they will both travel down together.

Anyway back to genealogy.........I thought Ozi said she cant find a HUGH?

Annx

Hiya Ann, hope yu had a good shopping trip!
I am thinking it may be a different one to what Ozi was suggesting as the Head is listed as John and not Hugh, would that be correct? (You have to have sound detective skills to decifer the names don't you? can you imagine trying to sort a crime in those days!? haha)

x

1911 census - household transcription
Person: WILLIAMS, Minnie
Address: 266 North Road Atherton

Cost:
You will be charged 10 credits for a transcript and 30 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results 1911 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

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WILLIAMS, John Head Married M 39 1872 Collier Cefn Byeman North Wales VIEW
WILLIAMS, Jane Wife Married
18 years F 38 1873 Cefn Maur North Wales VIEW
WILLIAMS, Samuel Son M 14 1897 Colliery Belts Hand Tyldesley Eng VIEW
WILLIAMS, Minnie Daughter F 10 1901 School Tyldesley Eng VIEW
WILLIAMS, Doriss Daughter F 9 1902 School Tyldesley Eng VIEW
WILLIAMS, Edith A Daughter F 7 1904 School Tyldesley Eng VIEW
WILLIAMS, William Leonard Son M 0 (10 MONTHS) 1911 Westhoughton Daisy Hill VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
23240 Reference:
RG14PN23240 RG78PN1358 RD460 SD4 ED10 SN274

Registration District:
Leigh Sub District:
Atherton Enumeration District:
10 Parish:
Atherton

Address:
266 North Road Atherton County:
Lancashire


NOT SURE IF THIS IS THE ONE OZI IS TALKING ABOUT!

However there are 9 children born 5 living 4 deaths married 18years

If the wrong one Oz will let us know

Annx

Hi Lorraine,

See you have done a bit more..........will take a look at the image for 1911 as Ozi has suggested and post the result.

Just to say..........I have over the years had many a child say born as Jones, grew up as Davies (mother remarried) then when independant reverted back to Jones...........when you think of it as a child they do not have a choice in the matter.

Annx

I wonder if Hugh then took the Francis surname into adulthood seeing as by the time he was 20, he has shifted from living with his Grandparents (Williams) and was back with Thoms & Pamala living in Tyldesley?

Hi Ozi, now it is my turn to be up in the UK! haha
Sarah Francis registered in deaths 1873, does that mean aged 73, would Sarah, Thomas first Wife have been aged 30? : )

I can't find Hugh and there are a number of people who come up when searching for Williams family with Samuel, and some different ones with Minnie. So a look at the transcription or image is needed.

1911:
WILLIAMS JANE F 1873 38 Leigh Lancashire - born Cefn.
WILLIAMS SAMUEL M 1898 13 Leigh Lancashire - born Atherton
WILLIAMS MINNIE F 1901 10 Leigh Lancashire


?????
Deaths Mar 1921
Williams Hugh 49 Leigh 8c 318

1901 England Census
Name: Hugh Williams
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Ruston, Denbighshire, Wales [Ruabon, of course]
Civil parish: Atherton
Ecclesiastical parish: Hindsford St Anne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 20 Robert St [The next building is St James's Catholic Church.]

Occupation: Colliery __taller [I can't read it.]

Registration district: Leigh
Sub-registration district: Atherton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 130
Household Members:
Name Age
Hugh Williams 30
Jane Williams 29 - Cefn, Denbighshire
Samuel Williams 4 - Atherton
Minnie Williams 10 weeks - Atherton
Robert Evans 32 - boarder from Cefn, Denbighshire.

1891 Wales Census
Name: Mary E Francis
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Ruabon
Ecclesiastical parish: Rhosymedre
Town: Cefn Mawr
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Pigeons Inn, Pigeons Lane

Condition as to marriage: single

Occupation: General servant

Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Ruabon

Household Members:
Name Age
James Hughes 40 - Innkeeper
Sarah Hughes 53
John Roberts 72
Mary E Francis 24
Jane Lewis 22

1891 Wales Census
Name: Mary E Francis
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Ruabon
Ecclesiastical parish: Rhosymedre
Town: Cefn Mawr
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Pigeons Inn, Pigeons Lane
Condition as to marriage: single

Occupation: General servant
Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Ruabon
Household Members:
Name Age
James Hughes 40
Sarah Hughes 53
John Roberts 72
Mary E Francis 24
Jane Lewis 22

1871 Wales Census
Name: Mary C Francis [This could be Mary E Francis]
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Ruabon
Ecclesiastical parish: Rhosymedre
Town: Cefn Bychan
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Newbridge

Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Ruabon
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Francis 27 - coal miner
Sarah Francis 27
Mary C Francis 3
Mary Evans 54 - mother-in-law; Lanfyllin, Montgomeryshire


Deaths Jun 1873
Francis Sarah 73 Wrexham 11b 237

Sorry, I was called away unexpectedly.

Ann, I think that 1881 is very likely Lorraine's ancestors.



I think this may be Mary Ellen, and perhaps she's a daughter from a previous marriage/relationship of Thomas's. There's certainly a gap between the elder Mary Ellen & Hugh and the other children who came after 1875.

Births Sep 1867
Francis Mary Ellen Wrexham 11b 337

It's tricky as there are other Mary Ellen Francis & Mary Ellen Williams born in the 1860s but not at quite the correct time.

Ozi

Anns & Johns ages are slightly out but you hae taught me that means nothing with these records..however, Hugh WAS a Grandson and he would have been 10....plausible?

I really am off to bed now!!
1881 census - household transcription
Person: WILLIAMS, Hugh
Address: 5, Tan Y Lan, The Court, Ruabon

Cost:
Transcriptions are free for this set of records. You will be charged 5 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results 1881 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WILLIAMS, John Head Married M 70 1811 Formerly Coal Miner
Chirk
Denbighshire
Wales VIEW
WILLIAMS, Ann Wife Married F 70 1811
Ruabon
Denbighshire
Wales VIEW
WILLIAMS, Hugh Grand Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Ruabon
Denbighshire
Wales VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
5512 Folio:
47 Page:
14

Registration District:
Wrexham Sub District:
Ruabon Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Ruabon Municipal Borough:
Address:
5, Tan Y Lan, The Court, Ruabon County:
Denbighshire



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census search results 1881 address search redefine current search
Discover who else is interested in this family - register the details at www.lostcousins.com

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Annx
Ozi......what do you think of the following, if no good leave message and i will delete tomorrow......its just the williams thing and locations.

Hi Ozi!

Lorraine you can do both, for example by clicking on my name your post will come direct to me and not appear on the thread. However when you have several people helping on your thread it is always best to stay with that as the other contributors wont know whats going on if to do with your query.............do you get my meaning?

Am off to bed soon as going to Chester shopping tomorrow, will check in tomorrow and see if Ozi has found any skeletons in the closet.

Annx

Can we conclude the Hugh Francis was just not registered anywhere under his correct name in 1881 as I cannot find him anywhere!

Pardon my Frrench but "bloody hell" there are no flies on you in Oz! haha
yeah Amy, Pams Daughter would have been 34 in 1911...and it was very common to let the kids live with the Grandparents because my Nan had my Auntie living with Joseph Thomas until she was 6years old! that was back in 1935...
The name Amy Francis and William Thomas Warr would work to create Joseph Thomas Warr aged 9...

I am ashamed at my skills (or lack of) compared to you and Ann!)
: )

oh right that would have been weird had you nown John!

it is getting late you are right, I am just looking on acestry now to see what clues I can get, it keeps giving me free "glimpses" of people to entice me to sign up! (which I will)...

I am intrigued where Hugh Francis was in 1881 aged 10 ...where was he living and why not with pamela?

Do you just contact people via the messaging boards as and when you choose or do you email also? No problem if you just do messaging boards as this has been great so far

Lorraine