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I am tracing my Great Grandma, Pamela Downs who then married and became a Francis. I can find her in the 1901 census, the 1891 (spelled Pamala) and 1881 (spelled Pamley). She was born in Ruabon, Denbigh, Wales and married to Thomas Francis. I have her as born around 1844. Can anyone see any info on her from the 1871 & 1861 census? I have tried but failed so far. Her children were Joseph Thomas, Annie, Catherine, Amy, Hugh, Mary & Sarah I believe. I do not know her parents names.

Many thanks in advance!

These arethe only Downs family in Ruabon/Wrexham area, any connection?

1851 census - household transcription
Person: DOWNS, Edward
Address: Cefn Mawr, Ruabon

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census search results 1851 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

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DOWNS, John Head Married M 26 1825 Forgman
St Martin
Shropshire VIEW
DOWNS, Mary Wife Married F 30 1821
Malpas
Cheshire VIEW
HARRIS, Ann Daughter F 9 1842
Whitchurch
Shropshire VIEW
DOWNS, Edward Son M 3 1848
Ruabon
Denbighshire VIEW
DOWNS, Samuel Son M 1 1850
Ruabon
Denbighshire VIEW

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RG number:
HO107 Piece:
2503 Folio:
153 Page:
2

Registration District:
Wrexham Sub District:
Ruabon Enumeration District:
2I Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Ruabon Municipal Borough:
Address:
Cefn Mawr, Ruabon County:
Denbighshire



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census search results 1851 address search redefine current search
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Could you be wrong re her birth year?

DOWNS Pamela Ruabon Wrexham County Borough (Wrexham) RBN/011/89 1851

PS...This should have read Great Great Grandma..I am not that old LOL

I do have the birth year wrong, it will be c. 1848...sorry

So she was married before?

Marriages Mar 1875
EVANS Elizabeth Corwen 11b 529
Francis Thomas Corwen 11b 529 <<<<<<<<<<
Roberts Allen Corwen 11b 529
WILLIAMS Pamela Corwen 11b 529 <<<<<<<<<<

Where did you get the surname Downs from, a child's birth cert?

Births Mar 1848
WILLIAMS Pamela Wrexham 27 254

For reference:

1881 Wales Census a
Name: Pamley Francis
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Ruabon
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: 8 Thomas's Row
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Ruabon
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Francis 37
Pamley Francis 33
Mary Ellen Francis 13
Amy Francis 3
Joseph Thomas Francis 1




1891 England Census
Name: Pamalar Francis
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: Cherh Green, Shropshire, England [Chirk Green on image]
Civil parish: Tyldesley With Shakerley
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Tyldesley
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Registration district: Leigh
Sub-registration district: Atherton
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Francis 47
Pamalar Francis 44
Hugh Francis 20
Amy Francis 14
Joseph Thos Francis 11
Sarah Francis 8
Catherine Francis 6
Annie Francis 3
Walter Evans 30
Sarah Ann Reynolds 24

Excuse my ignorance as I am new to all this. I only have her married to the one person which was Thomas Francis. He was born in the same place in Wales I believe. I do not know when she was married either. I just know the 1881 census shows them both as Francis.
I reckon their first child Mary Ellen was born around 1868 the their Son Hugh around 1871 and so on. I assume in 1871 they would be married?

I do not have any credits now as it was costing me a small fortune searching so at the moment, I am reliant on the free use of the Ancestry site at the local library.

Many thanks

thanks again, I do have these records you have listed and I do believe these are the correct ones for my family...so any ideas on how to work back now? I have hit the wall!

Cheers
Lorraine

Chirk is only about 4 miles from Ruabon.

1851 Wales Census
Name: Pamela Williams
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Chirk, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Chirk
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Oswestry
Sub-registration district: Knockin
ED, institution, or vessel: 6c
Household schedule number: 44
Household Members:
Name Age
John Williams 46
Ann Williams 38
Emanuel Williams 15
Noah Williams 6
Pamela Williams 3
Jonah Williams 1 6 Mo


Where did you get the surname Downs from?

Lorraine,

Just to clarify and so we can help you further, where did you get the Downs surname from............how do you know your GG mother was a Downs?

Indeed there is a Pamela Downs birth in Ruabon 1851, as per my earlier post.

Annx

I wonder if she was a Williams? It does sound feasble with the dates!
I get Downs from my Nan who says she used to remember her Nan as a little Welsh woman called Pamela Downs. It was her Dads Mum. Then I saw this on the 1901 census. She was living in Turner Street with my Great Grandfather, (Joseph Thomas) and it had to be them because my Nan had her Mums family living on Turner Street also and that is how the met and married in 1910.

I did wonder why her name was Downs in 1901 but had been francis in 1891 & 1881...I just assumed because in 1901 there was no trace of her Husband, she had taken her maiden name back? Wonder if it was something else?

Thank you

the 1891 census does show her as born in Chirk!!!!

Also, have you found Hugh in any other census?

Ozi

was it common to be around 3 years out with birth dates dating back to 1851 and onwards? by 1881 she was listed as 33 assuming the 1851 person is her?

thanks

Looks like Hugh might be her son, but not necessarily Thomas's.

Births Jun 1871
WILLIAMS Hugh Wrexham 11b 333

Ages are very unreliable.

People bend the truth today, let alone in the past.

Also knowing your age wasn't so important. There was no welfare state; no pensions, no retirement age, etc. So no real need to know exactly when you were born.

I have a feeling this is Pamela & Hugh mistranscribed.


1871 Wales Census
Name: Pamilla Roberts
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Clenk Green, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Ruabon
Ecclesiastical parish: Rhosymedre
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Ruabon
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 245
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Roberts 49 - widow; Cefn Mawr, Denbighshire
Catherine Roberts 14 - Llangollen, Denbighshire
Pamilla Roberts 23
John Roberts 1 month - Cefn Mawr, Denbighshire


Cefn Mawr is between Chirk and Ruabon, kind of. It's a little to the west.

Well for def there is a Pamela Downs born Ruabon, but not till 1851.

Looking on the North Wales BMD the ONLY Pamela that married a Thomas Francis is a WILLIAMS that marriage took place in Llangollen

Annx