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glad to have helped

I am surprised Elsie didn't have a middle name

Yes 1913 must be correct, I had 1913C

Definitely them, just had a look, and on the marriage certificate is has Albert as a Drayman.
Thankyou so very very much, everything makes perfect sense now, all the 'family' friends my mum remembers when she was young are her actual great aunts.
It would seem they stepped in when Eliza died to help Elsie and mum.
What I thought was a dead end has turned out to be a very happy result

looks like albert died 1913

i think the earlier child may have been Beatrice V Fish b late 1910, d early 1911

Yes, Elsie was my darling grandmother.

Sorry, just read what you posted, I get too excited about finding ancestors!!!

Oh my, thankyou so much.
What ages did they give?

My bad, the name on the certificate was Albert, my great grandfather. I just had a look. The Samuel was on my grandfather's side of the family.
Albert and Eliza Smith definite Grandparents. Their daughter was Elsie, my grandmother. They lived in the Hackney area all their life.

they are living at 109 Grafton Street Mile End E

they were married 1910, had had one child who had died, just like you predicted!

was your grandmother Elsie?

Thankyou so much.
Eliza would have been about 1881, and Albert about 1882.

FISH, Albert Head Married M 29 1882 Brewers Drayman Bethnal Green
FISH, Eliza Wife Married F 30 1881 Hommerton

My alternative will fit if someone is able to acess the 1911 census. This should confirm the year of birth for Eliza. If I have been looking at the wrong one, then it would all fit in nicely.
It should read Albert Fish and Eliza, with no children. (Unless my Grandmother had an older sibling that died early as she was born in 1912). In the Hackney area.

whoa, hang on !!

let's go back to the beginning ... what info do you DEFINITELY have?

can you give us names, dates and places for people you know to be 100% your ancestors? eg your grandparents

how can you "remove" Samuel if he is named as the father on the marriage certificate? you said "A marriage certificate" does that mean you're not sure that it is your great grandmother's?

best start right back at the beginning, to stop you (and us) going on a wild goose chase

I do have a possible alternative that removes Samuel all together.
There is an Eliza Smith, born a few years earlier (1881C), who's parents were Henry and Eliza Smith. Her sister was Harriett, who my mum called nan, as My G grandmother died when my grandmother was 13.

My Apologies, yes Heresfordshire, as I originally wrote. So many unfamiliar names.
Just wondering how the census clerk could make the mistake of confusing Edgbaston with Ledbury, or vice versa.
I gather Ledbury is closer to Hackney and Finchley than Edgbaston?

It's actually Ledbury Herefordshire not Hertfordshire. Makes a big difference.

Exactly. It would seem the Birmingham on his 1891 census threw me, but have to ask why???
As I live in Australia, I really don't know all of the name places, but have figured out that Birmingham and Hertfordshire is far enough away from each other to know where you came from.
I am now having trouble trying to locate the Ledbury Samuel prior to 1881.

yes Astra, that's what I was trying to point out

i wonder if the occupation of plasterer has anything to do with it?

The Samuel Smith born to William and Hannah is still with his parents and single in 1891 so I think that discounts him.

Samuel Smith
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter and St Paul
Town: Aston
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Aston Manor
ED, institution, or vessel: 56
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Smith 67
Hannah Smith 62
Elizabeth Smith 37
Samuel Smith 33
Henry Smith 28