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Hi Ann
Does your access to London marriages extend as far as this one?
Possible - Marriage: Victor R Smith, Q1 1918, Dartford, (Kent) Vol. 2a, Page 1307 to Emily S Thomas.
Victor Richard Smith was the son of Richard Alfred Smith and Ada Eliza North. Her uncle was Alfred Wilkins North.
Jim

Maureen
Edward Jordan died Q4 1838, East Ashford Kent. His wife was Sussanah Dunkin.
Sarah Ann Roper c.1819 - parents Charles Roper and Sarah
Jim

Hi Ladies and Lynda (in Australia).
Thank you for all this magic information which will help both Lynda and I to build the Smith / North family connection.
So far I have several George Smith connections in my tree and yesterday managed to take them back to Stephen Roadway and Lydia Haw c1800 (Roadway / Rodway are re-occuring names in the Smith family tree)
I also managed to find a living public family tree yesterday which is connected to these Smith's.
Alfred Wilkins North was my great grandfathers brother and his daughter's husband's family have seemed to have kept their secrets closely guarded up until now. For all concerned in the future it seems best to out them.
Jim (France).

Actually,I think the mother was Sarah:
1861 Ancestry
Name: Edwin W Jordan
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah A
Gender: Male
Where born: Margate, Kent, England
Civil parish: Whitechapel
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Occupation:Fishmonger

Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Goodmans Fields
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 155
Household Members:
Name Age
Edwin W Jordan 39
Sarah A Jordan 40
Edwin W Jordan 16
Sarah A Jordan 14
Mary Ann Jordan 12
Amelia Jordan 8
Alfred Jordan 6
Louisa Jordan 4
Esther Jordan 1
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 272; Folio: 131; Page: 24

Name: Edwin William Jordan Occ:Fishmonger
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Sarah Ann Roper
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 15 Jun 1843
Parish: St Mary at Lambeth
County: Middlesex
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Edward Jordan (deceased) Occ:Shoemaker
Spouse Father Name: Charles Roper Occ: Brass founder

Maureen

just a short note before i go to work

Esther was Esther Jordan and she married James Buss 28/2/1891 again a huge age gap he was 47 a widower and she was 25 he was a warehouseman

witness Alfred Wilkins north and catherine buss

other sisters for Esther are louisa, marie and annie

their father was edwin william jordan and marie

Ann

hi Lynda

I have access to the london marriages so thats how I found george and stella's marriage

I think Esther Buss was amelia's sister but buss is her married name if I remember rightly did have a quick look the other day. So this is one of George's aunties that brought hime up. maybe it was one aunty and mother that brought him up?

There was a huge age gap between George and Amelia although he had been married before.

glad you are pleased with what we have found. please let me know if I can be of any other help once you have worked out what we have already told you.

I am to work soon and not back til 9.45 and back again 7 to 2.30 tomorrow so wont be able to do much til then

Ann

My Darlings Patricia,Maureen and Ann I have just read and am trying to digest all you have written .As I said I am lousy at finding my way around computers. I have been battling against a large family secret that doesn't seem so bad these days for over 50 years.I was brought up to think my half sister was really my full sister and the lack of info was all part of my parents trying to prevent anyne finding out. You are truly amazing. I never had any certificates and only knewa few dates What you have found ties in with recent info .Ann I am sure that your Georgeand John are the right ones
Alfred Wilkins North was a relative on my father's mother's side.Ann,how were you able to see the marriage certificate for George and Stella. Tom and Isabella were her parents so that' right.I have never heard of Esther Buss, It will take me some time to work out the connection.Lynda

maureen I have 2 pm now and she has opened both still no reply

Has she opened the gently worded PM?

Oh! That's a shame.

Maureen

maureen I already have but she still has not replied

She might not know how. Maybe send her a gently worded PM??

Maureen

why has Lynda not replied after all our hard work!!!

That matches perfectly with the address on marriage certificate of George and Stella

found something of interest re Smith and North

a witness on marriage ofGeorge and Amelia was Alfred Wilkie(could read it properly)
well
there is a marriage between Alfred Wilkins North and Louisa Jordan june 1882 Camberwell

Ann

1901 census transcription details for: 3, Bolina Road, St Paul Deptford
RG number: RG13 Piece: 530 Folio: 160 Page: 13


Reg. District: Greenwich Sub District: Deptford Central
Parish: St Paul Deptford Enum. District: 20
Ecclesiastical District: St Bartholomews Camberwell City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 3, Bolina Road, St Paul Deptford
County: London
BUSS, James Head Married M 57 1844 Printers Warehouseman
Aldersgate
London
BUSS, Esther Wife Married F 34 1867
Whitechapel
London
JORDAN, Sarah Mother-In-Law Widow F 78 1823
Lambeth
London

Maureen

1911 census transcription details for: 125 Kimberley Road
RG14PN2587 RG78PN87 RD27 SD6 ED17 SN288


Reg. District: Camberwell Sub District: Peckham South
Parish: Camberwell Enum. District: 17
Address: 125 Kimberley Road
County: London

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
SMITH, Amelia Head Widow F 54 1857 Marylebone London
SMITH, John Handelsomething Son Single M 19 1892 Assistant In Domestic Stores Peckham London
SMITH, George Son Single M 15 1896 Errand Boy Grocer Peckham London
BUSS, Esther Sister Widow F 44 1867 Whitechapel London


Maureen

Edit:Oh good-same address as on the marriage cert!!

IS THERE ANYONE WITH 1911 CENSUS THAT COULD LOOK UP THIS GEORGE AND HIS BROTHER JACK(JOHN) LIVING PECKHAM

GEORGE BORN ABT1896 AND JACK POSS 1899

FATHER GEORGE AND MOTHER AMELIA (GEORGE COULD BE DECEASED AS WAS 1917)

THANKS

THANKS

FATHER WAS A CLERK ON GEORGE AND STELLAS MARRIAGE

found a marriage for George smith father for your George

George Smith Widower age 50 Mercantile Clerk lived 77 Limell road FATHER George Smith Merchant (so should job for George be merchant clerk?)
married Amelia Jordan age 30 Spinster lived 14 Bridge Terrace Lower woolwich FATHER Edwin William Jordan GENTLEMAN
Married 6/9/1887 St Giles, Camberwell Southwark

George and Stella marriage was at St Anthony nunhead, Southwark
father of Stella was Tom John Ruttley occupation Tailor
Father of George was DECEASED a clerk
wittnesses
Tom John Ruttley and Isabella Ruttley

Can you let me know what you think before I go any further



Witnesses Alfred Wilkie NORTH
and Esther Jordan

Ann

hi

have notice that on the marriage certificate Georges father was a clerk
have looked at this and found
George smith accountance? clerk definately a clerk but fisrt word hard to read born 1838 Peckham
wife Amelia born 1858 peckham
John H 1892 peckham
George 1896 peckham

I know ther is no Jack but sometimes Johns called themselves Jack so possible It was the only clerk I could find

found 2 poss marriages for George and Amelia will investigate them

Ann

George and Jack, but not with aunts?
SMITH, George Head Married M 37 1874 Polisher London Peckham
SMITH, Alice Wife Married 14 years 7 children 5 living F 37 1874 London Bermondsey
SMITH, George Son M 13 1898 School London Peckham
SMITH, Frank Son M 12 1899 School London Peckham
SMITH, Jack Son M 11 1900 School London Peckham
SMITH, Sidney Son M 5 1906 School London Peckham
SMITH, Robert Son M 3 1908 School London Peckham
RG number: RG14 Piece: 2520 Reference: RG14PN2520 RG78PN85 RD27 SD4 ED1 SN48
Registration District: Camberwell Sub District: St George EnumerationDistrict: 1 Parish: Camberwell Address: 74 Sumner Road Peckham County: London

Marriages Mar 1917
Ruttley Stella Smith Camberwell 1d 1156
Smith George Ruttley Camberwell 1d 1156