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Hi
Mad meg and Barbara from Yorkshire have been helping with this one was wondering if either on line have received certificates today James john kelly born 17/10/1914 to james kelly and Amelia Kelly (formerly smith) in st georges in the east father private army service corps and dock labourer on jj kelly marriage to alice rowe father listed as dock labourer dec'd thinking this must be right wondering what your thought on this are. death cert for jj kelly born 1914 died Nov 1935 age 21 should be correct age Cause of death was what i expected but no informant name as an inquest was held for cause of death
thanks for any feedback

Name: Amelia Smith 53 Martha Street
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Spouse Name: James Kelly Occ:Dock Labourer 43 Crellin?? Street
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 21 Jan 1912
Parish: St George in the East
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: George Smith Occ:Lighterman
Spouse Father Name: John Kelly deceased Occ:Carman
Witnesses were John Bennet and Esther Bennett

Maureen

Thank you that looks all correct been a hard one to track have other family members that lived at 43 martha street this seems to get more strange by the minute. do you no how i can find out when this james kelly died i no he had passed away by 1935 when his son james john kelly married
thank you once again.
also can i track his army records?
sorry seem to be asking all the time
Tracy

on James j Kelly marriage cert in 1935 (father toJames kelly decd)it shows him living at 43 Martha street could this be the address that is unreadable?

Possible ?

Deaths Mar 1902
Kelly James 40 St. Geo. East 1c 272

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No no no

Hi,
I figured out that it's Crellin Street,but naturally that one seems to be missing from the 1911. Here's Amelia with her brother:
1911 census transcription details for: 53 Martha St St Georges E
National Archive Reference: RG14PN1514 RG78PN53 RD19 SD1 ED16 SN109

Reg. District: St George in the East Sub District: St George and St John
Parish: St George in the East Enum. District: 16
Address: 53 Martha St St Georges E County: London
SMITH, William George Head Married
10 years M 34 1877 Butcher London
SMITH, Annie Matilda Wife Married
10 years F 35 1876 London
SMITH, William Henry Edward Son M 9 1902 London
SMITH, Thomas William Son M 8 1903 London
SMITH, James Henry Son M 4 1907 London
SMITH, Annie Elizabeth Louisa Daughter F 0 1911 London
SMITH, Amelia Sister Single F 21 1890 Rope Worker London
SMITH, Amelia Niece F 1 1910 London

(I wonder if the niece is Amelia's child?)
Maureen
Edit-yes,Amelia says she's had one child.

He got married in 1912. i no this one is trouble?

sorry, wrong one...
Meant this one ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deaths Mar 1917 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kelly James 53 St.Geo.East 1c 408

It could be it has been so hard getting my head round this one JJ kelly born in 1914 is my father in laws dad, but he died 6 weeks after my father in law was born so have no back ground on the family, so would be great to try and track any family if Amelia and James had any other children? i could try and get the birth cert for 1910 amelia but could be a different dad?
sorry meant to say thank you for all this info
edit so could be James child why were things so complicated

For some reason I can't get my head round this. James, leave it to Barbara for now, who seems to be on a roll that I can't get to grips with. My brain has gone AWOL.

Barbara, if you could do a quick summary, i might be able to join in.

Thank you Micheal
is 53 his age because he was (if we have the right one) 21 when he got married in 1917?

i am sorry its such a mess
:(

I need to give them numbers...


James John Kelly - 1
James John Kelly - 2
James Kelly -3

JK 1 is your father in law born 1935

JK 2 is his father who married Alice 1935 and also died same year.

JK 3 is your father in law's grandad who was deceased by 1935

My question is ... who was 21 when he got married in 1917 ?
If that was JK 3 then we are looking for someone in their 30's max at death, in which case that death cert is wrong one.

JJk 1 yes my father in law born 1935
JJK 2 born 1914 married 1935(alice rowe) died 1935
JK 3 born? was decd by 1935(as per marriage cert of jjk2 and alice)
jk 3 was 21 when he married Amelia (re maureeninNY findings see previous entry)

Don't worry James, we will get there. I just thought that Barbara had a grasp of it, and I am drawing diagrams all over the place and not getting it right.

Marriages Mar 1912 -------------------------------------------------

Kelly James - Smith St.Geo.East 1c 337
Smith Amelia - Kelly St.Geo.East 1c 337

If this is correct marriage, it was 1912 not 1917 which if he was 21 at time of wedding would make him born 1891

Perhaps someone could find him on 1901 and 1911 censuses to see where he was born and possible parents.

Yes i believe this to be correct on JJK2 birth cert which i got today it shows this to be his mother and father sorry 1912.
Thank you
the marriage details which maureenNY found show his father as John kelly

So JK 3 (who married in 1912) could be John and not James ?

I think JK3s father was John.

Maureen

Oh right... so let me get this straight in my head ...
JK3's father is John.
So he would be JK 4 ?