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James John Kelly born 1915 married Alice Rowe 1935 James also died in 1935 had a son also James john Kelly also 1935, i am trying to trace James father, on alices and James Marriage cert it shows his name as James Kelly a dock labourer (deceased) any help would be great. x

Hi was just wondering if you need more details i only have the address as 43 martha street on the wedding cert of 1935
Hope this helps
Thank you

What town? Martha Street doesn't tell us a lot. Martha Street Glasgow, Martha Street, Norfolk, Martha Street Bristol.

More into please.

St George in the east London is on alices and James Certificate

Can I get this clear in my head?

James John Kelly married Alice Rowe in 1935 and died the same year.

He had a son of the same name.

For info:

Marriages Jun 1935 (>99%)
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Kelly James J Rowe Stepney 1c 438
Lee Elizabeth Smith Stepney 1c 438
Rowe Alice Kelly Stepney 1c 438
Smith Herbert Lee Stepney 1c 438

So you have the marriage cert, and the father is James Kelly, Dock labourer, deceased.

This is going to be a toughy.

I am hoping someone comes along with inspiration.

Do the witnesses give any clues?

yes james john kelly married had a son and died in the same year tthe son born in 1935 is my father in laws , i am trying to trace James kelly father of jj kelly
Dad also James Kelly who is recorded as deceased on his son marriage cert, sorry so hard to explain hope that helps.
1c 438 is the right cert i have that one Witnesses were there brother in law and walter Guerney i dont no sorry bit of a mess

Yes thats right but cant seem to trace him?

I have found James John Kelly Death age 21 1935 west ham 4a 87 if i ordered this would it give me more details about his parents?

Hi James
What you really need is John James Kelly's (c1915) birth cert. To find who is Mum as well as his dad were. To see if we can find them on the 1911 census.

There are 5 Possibles on FreeBMD

Births Dec 1914 (>99%)
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Kelly James J --mmn Smith St. Geo. East 1c 455
Kelly James J F --mmn Pryce Hackney 1b 710
Kelly James J -- mmnTobin Toxteth P. 8b 360

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Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
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Kelly James J-- mmn Maxwell Middlesbro 9d 1029

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Births Dec 1915 (>99%)
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KELLY James J --mmn Magne Woolwich 1d 2103


What was his age showing on marriage cert ?

All the best
Barbara

20 years so could this be 1914/1915 i think i will try the St George in the east or should i get all three they all seemed to name there children after there fathers so frustrating

Thank you for all your help this evening i will order james j kelly st george in the east nearest i think!! and will come back once received for more help if that's ok.
Thanks again
Tracy

OK James--just bare with it a bit---Trying to see if I can find a marriage to fit in with the birth of James c1915

one to start with

Marriages Dec 1914 (>99%)
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James B Kelly
Anna M Magne

Woolwich 1d 2612


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The Kelly / Tobin marriage


Marriages Sep 1914 (>99%)
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Vincent J KELLY
Annie Tobin
Toxteth P. 8b 398

So I think we can rule this one out
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------

The Kelly/Maxwell marriage ?

Marriages Jun 1905 (>99%)
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Terence KELLY
Adelaide E MAXWELL
Middlesbro' 9d 1080

So I guess this could be ruled out too

another

Marriages Jun 1914 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

James B Kelly
Cecilia Pryce
Hackney 1b 1052

--------------------------------------------------------


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Kelly/Smith could be the one

Marriages Mar 1912 (>99%)
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James Kelly
Amelia Smith
St.Geo.East 1c 337
--------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder if this could be the father ??

1911 census transcription details for: 32 Sutton St St George in the East

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN1504 RG78PN53 RD19 SD1 ED6 SN63


Reg. District: St George in the East Sub District: St George and St John
Parish: St George in the East Enum. District: 6

Address: 32 Sutton St St George in the East
County: London


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

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OLDENBUTTEL, Claus Head Marrit
38 years M 62 1849 Cabinet Maker Germany

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OLDENBUTTEL, Maria Wife Marrit F 60 1851 Germany

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OLDENBUTTEL Daughter Single F 17 1894 London

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CLARKE, James Boarder Single M 50 1861 Labourer Dock Labourers London

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MILEHARD, Walter Boarder Single M 40 1871 Labourer Dock Labourers London

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DRESCOLL, Alexander Boarder Single M 53 1858 Labourer Dock Labourers London

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>>>>>KELLY, James Boarder Single M 30 1881 Labourer Dock Labourers London

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MARSHALL, Walter Boarder Single M 30 1881 Labourer Dock Labourers London

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I said this was going to be a toughie.

What is the name of the brother in law on the marriage cert? Is there an occupation for either the groom or his father?

The death of James John in 1935 is probably going to be reported by his wife, so won't tell you anything new. We will keep it in reserve in case we get nowhere else. Do you think his occupation might have been interesting to know?

Barbara is trying hard, but I actually think you are up the creek without a paddle here.

Presumably this is a grandfather. Have you any relatives with any recollection of him? A sister such as Mildred or Beryl could open doors!

Let's go onwards. Do you know if Alice remarried? When and where?

Do you know when and where she died?

What happened to James John Kelly the son, born 1835. Who did he marry? Not likely to help much, but you never know.

Sorry, pal, not hopeful for you on this. I have a John Kelly in my own tree that I have never traced. Maybe its the same fella! But I guess not.

Love

Margaret

I agree Margaret--even if the Birth and Marriage cert were sent for-- for the Kelly/Smith couple and child --and they were a "match" its still not certain that this James John Kelly is the right one for James / Tracys ancestor

I also can't find a Walter Guerney anywhere !!!!
All the best
Barbara

Hi Barbara, Walter Guerney was possibly a church member, drafted in to witness the marriage.

I don't think we'll get much further with this family unless James can dredge up any family stories.

Too many possibles I think.

I think Tracy's going to have to take a gamble with that marriage and birth cert. She says James died before 1935, the closest I can find is this one, assuming he was born abt 1881:

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about James M Kelly
Name: James M Kelly
Death Registration Month/Year: 1932 (March qtr)
Age at death (estimated): 49
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 150

Not a clue if it might be him.

Hey Margaret hope you got my pm this morning?
Thank you both for your time tonight just got back from the Hospital.
just did not want you to think i had left you with all the work on this tough Family history, if all thing ok with mum. will try and get back on line tomorrow, thank you again for your time.
Tracy.
xx

Hi
Just to let you no i have ordered two cert James john Kelly Birth 1914 st George in the east 1c 455
and his death cert james J Kelly 1935 west ham 4a 87 thought it might have some information on his birth from the death cert also who might have registered his death? will fill you in once received.
Thank again
Tracy