Find Ancestors

So what we're wondering is whether Mary Heys's first husband was from the same area, and maybe a tad older, and so maybe a sibling of Mary Heys, mother of John Heatley ...

Many maybes, but you never know. I've not infrequently found that one could identify parents and younger siblings of a person, in the 1841 census, in places where the population pool is relatively small and the surname relatively less common, e.g.


Simon -- you can't find a baptism for your John, but I can't find baptisms for these kids (1851 census) either:

Mary (Council Heys) Bryson 51 - born Mellor
Hugh Heyes 30 - son, born Samlesbury
George Heyes 19 - son, born Walton le Dale
Thomas Heyes 16 - son, born Walton le Dale
Jane Bryson 10 - daughter, born Walton le Dale


So it seems to me that records for this area either don't exist or do but aren't to be found on line.

I'm not familiar with lancashirebmd really -- does it have notes about what isn't there?

the bryson / Mary marriage was in the name of hayeson the GRO index - so does that mean she born as Counsel (Counsil)

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1840
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BRYSON * William COUNSEL Mary Walton le Dale, St Leonard Preston 240/1/210
BRYSON * William HEYS Mary Walton le Dale, St Leonard Preston 240/1/210

edit - found that marriage

Marriage: 22 Feb 1840 St Leonard, Walton-le-Dale, Lancashire, England
William Bryson - (X), Tailor Widower of this Chapelry
Mary Heys - (X), Widow of this Chapelry
Witness: John Smith, (X); James Tomlison
Married by Banns by: Robt. Hornby
Register: Marriages 1840 - 1848 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 104, Entry 210
Source: LDS Film 1502383

from lancs bmd

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1840
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
BRYSON Jane Walton-le-Dale Preston CLARKSON WLD/2/85
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1841
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
BRYSON Jane Walton-le-Dale Preston COUNSIL WLD/3/67 **********
BRYSON Jane Walton-le-Dale Preston HAYES WLD/3/67 ***********

*********** same person as same reg no

Simon, I ruled *out* the people I was looking at. There was reason to look at them, given the names and possible late baptism and absence of any other candidates, but it weren't them.

-edit-
right, now I see that I had somehow got it into my head that the marriage was John Heatley and *Ann* Heys, when it was

Marriage: 25 May 1809 St Leonard, Walton le Dale, Lancashire, England
John Heatley -
Mary Heys -

... as you keep posting over and over ... so I'm going to delete the John Wesley Heatley post from the thread so as not to confuse.

-------------------------

You know, not everyone had children baptised. I didn't absorb all the tales of churchy goings on earlier in this thread, but if your Heatleys were involved at all, possibly baptisms were put on hold or decided against.


I wouldn't want to be doing this without access to censuses myself, Simon. Looking for patterns can be instructive.

The marriage was in Walton le Dale. Not so far from Samlesbury. I looked that up on the map because of a couple of people I noticed in censuses. (Looking for Heys seemed reasonable too, when looking for the source of John Heatley who married Ann - oops, Mary, I thought.)


1851 in Walton le Dale, reg dist Preston

Mary Bryson 51 - born Mellor
Hugh Heyes 30 - son, born Samlesbury
George Heyes 19 - son, born Walton le Dale
Thomas Heyes 16 - son, born Walton le Dale
Jane Bryson 10 - daughter, born Walton le Dale

Marriages Mar 1840
BRYSON William Preston 21 345
HEYS Mary Preston 21 345

Births Dec 1841 (also one in Sep 1840)
Bryson Jane Preston 21 582


1851 in Walton le Dale

Mary Turner 67
Elizth Turner 37
Mary Turner 35
Margt Turner 31
Jane Turner 24
John Heatley 19 - grandson, born Samlesbury
Jane Turner 13

in 1841 in Walton le Dale

William Turner 60
Mary Turner 50
Elizabeth Turner 25
Mary Turner 20
Margaret Turner 15
George Turner 15
Jane Turner 12
Catherine Heatley 25
John Heatley 10
William Turner 5
Jane Turner 3


All I'm doing is looking at possible Heatley/Heys intersections in the early 1800s.

There are people here at GR with Heys-s and Heyes-s born in Walton and Samlesbury in the 1700s in their trees. It might be worth just some general inquiries as to what they know about the families there.

Oh. I see you have Samlesbury as the source of Hugh 1720 and James 1756 Heatley. You're in touch with the other people with them and other Samlesbury Heatleys?

I have also created a 'tree' with the two John's related and then followed John Heatley @1780 back.

His father appears to be James Heatley born in the 1750's.

I have worked out that James Heatley's grandfather is also Captain William Heatleys grandfather. Hugh Heatley 1650 married Alice Gregson.

If I can connect the two Johns then I am confident of tracing the Heatley's back before 1600.

Message me if you would like to see this tree.

Hi JC

Thanks for your input.

I do remember that there was a lost 1851 Lancs Census but I have found John Heatley surgeon on the 1841 and 1851 census.

I do think that his parents were probably dead by 1841.

Your records above don't seem to tie in with a John Heatley who was living in London training to be a surgeon in the 1830's

I do think he must have come from a family with money and the Heatleys of Brindle and Preston certainly did have money.

These are the facts

John 1813 lived at Dalton House (1841) in Whittle the house is still there.
He was working there as a Doctor before moving to Manchester.
He had a son called Peter Ralph Jackson Heatley.
His son Henry Heys Heatley was born in Whittle
His eldest son was John Heys Heatley.


I found this marriage, the wife name his Heys same as middle name of my John Heatley's children.

Coincidence or related?

Marriage: 25 May 1809 St Leonard, Walton le Dale, Lancashire, England
John Heatley - Preston Corn Dealer
Mary Heys -
Register: Marriages 1807 - 1809, Page 5, Entry 109
Witnesses
Thomas Gregson, JNo Talbot
Henry Smith Wheelwright, Elizabeth Craven
Source: LDS Film 1656765

If this is right why can't I find birth records for John Heatley@ 1813 and John Heatley@1780

It is there two facts I am missing at the moment or other info that would prove it.

I have no evidence they were born in Manchester and lived in Preston.

Born Preston or area and moved to an expanding Manchester is more likely.

I don't suppose there's any chance your John's parents got non-conformist in their middle age and had their kids baptised or re-baptised that way?


Name: John Wesley Heatley
Name: Elizabeth Heatley
-- both on same date
Event Type: Baptism
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Christening Date: 01 Jul 1821
Christening Place: Manchester, Lancashire
Father's Name: John Heatley
Mother's Name: Ann Heatley
Record Set: RG4_0973
Collection: England and Wales, Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8)


Baptism date does not always correspond to birthdate.
In my Hill/Monck nuclear family, I have
4 youngest kids, births late 1840s to 1856, baptised on the same date in Cornwall 1857
1 kid (third oldest) baptised in 1872 in London evidently in contemplation of death a few weeks later
1 kid (second oldest) baptised in 1860 in Cornwall
(oldest kid allegedly born Jersey, no idea)

btw, you have now exceeded Ernest Hill/Monck's seven pages of thread ...


rest of post deleted 17 May because I now realize I was looking for parents John and *Ann* when it's John and Mary ...

Just to note that the 1841 census for John Heatley 1776 does say born in Scotland -- the "S" in the "Whether born in Scotland, Ireland or Foreign Parts".

Wife Frances was born in England but not in county. Margaret Dearden was not born in county, and is of independent means.

Oh look, a servant named Greenwood. XP

- edit -- oops, I was running a page behind! I was referring to the 1841 census posted by RR on the previous page.

nudge

Dea,

People just looking and commenting are a help.

Everyday I or others seem to find fresh information on John Heatley or possible family.

I am fairly confident who John the surgeons parents were but not sure who there parents were or how or if John Heatley Surgeon was related to Captain William Heatley.

I would love someone to read through the thread and give me their opinions.

Thanks

Simon

I have followed your thread Simon but I am afraid I haven't been of much help.

I am happy to see though that you have found the gravestone of your John Heatley!!

Best of luck with your on-going search!

Dea Xxx

For those following my thread and journey of discovery for John Heatley and family today has been a good day.

A cousin of mine has found John Heatley Surgeons gravestone.
She has sent me a photograph and I would love to share it but GR forum does not yet have that functionality to upload photos.

The grave simply states.

The memory of

John Heatley surgeon
who died October 13th 1867, aged 56 years
Also Ellen his wife who died August 16th 1871 aged 57 years

Found in Manchester General Cemetery not Blackley

Well done to Gillian for her perseverance.

There doesn't seem to be any more details just a couple of entries stating John Heatley was a suregon in Manchester in 1852 and 1856.

I think it unlikely that my John Heatley was a surgeon in Jamaica whilst being a surgeon in Manchester.

The Standard (London, England), Friday, September 07, 1855
THE ARMY
MEDICAL OFFICES FOR FOREIGN SERVICE - Orders were received yesterday at the garrison at Chatham for the undernamed medical officers, for embarkation for services at the hospital at Scutari, Crimea, and the colonies: - Acting Assistant Surgeon T L W Wright, left the General Hospital this morning for Portsmouth, to relieve from duty Assistant Surgeon Edward Dolen, who embarks at that port in medical charge of troops for the Crimea. Assistant Surgeon J Coates MD, 26th Regiment, is also to embark for the East and to exchange into another on his arrival there and Assistant Surgeon George C Clery, with the following 7 Acting assistant surgeons, from the General Hospital Fort Pitt, embark for Seutari and the Crimea, viz:- William V Brown, T PMitchell, D Knox, S Herbert, W L Veale, Charles Cooper and G G Leake. Acting Assistant Surgeon J J Kelly and Acting Assistant Surgeon C G Le Febure proceed to Barbadoes: ACTING ASSISTANT SURGEON JOHN HEATLEY and Acting Assistant Surgeon Bell embark for JAMAICA.....etc

Whellan's Directory 1852.

Does anyone have access to a copy

I found this and would like to know the detail of what it written


John Heatley (undated)
Reference Number: MMC/2/Heatley
Physical Description: 1 file
Biographical History
Heatley is recorded as a surgeon in the Manchester area in the 1850s.

File ( n.d.)
Reference Number: MMC/2/Heatley/1
Physical Description: 2 pieces
Scope and Content
/1 Holograph note entry in Whellan's Directory 1852.
/2 Holograph note MD entry 1856.

Ok thanks very much

The John I am looking for must have died pre-1837

Not on census or his wife Mary.

His son John died in 1867 in Blackley thats why the John Heatley above interested.

Very few possibles on the 1841/51...Frances was John's wife on that one.

Most entries are much later births... have looked at various spellings but no joy

Hi Rambling Rose

If that is the John Heatley for the death record above then this is not John Heatley 1813 father.

Was Frances Heatley John's husband?

Are there other contenders?

???

1841 England Census
about John Heatley Name: John Heatley
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1776
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland, Ireland or Foreign parts

Civil parish: Manchester
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 577
Book: 26
Folio: 5
Page Number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Dearden 55
John Heatley 65 ( Broker furniture)
Frances Heatley 60
John Kay 3
Mary Kay 8
Elizabeth Kay 5
Bridget Greenwood 17

? Deaths Mar 1855 (>99%)


Heatley Frances Chorlton 8c 352

Anyone fancy a Saturday night read of these 7 pages or find the above John on the 1841 and 51 census/

Thanks

Could someone please look up this John Heatley on the 1841 and 1851

Burial: 26 Aug 1858 St Peter, Blackley, Lancashire, England
John Heatley -
Age: 89 years
Abode: Ardwick Manchester

Born in 1769?