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Hi Anne,

I had a good look on the UK incoming passenger lists, unfortunately nothing jumped out at me.... the other problem I thought was that if Mabel and Florence married just prior to WW1 then I would be looking for possibly 3 different surnames travelling together, if they travelled when your mother was a young girl (1915 +/- 5 years, my search period).

I have started to look at Water Engineers on the 1881 census and trying to match a marriage to Isabella....... not accomplished anything there either!

It's probably only one small bit of info missing that would help to sort it out, so maybe a trawl through your paperwork again?


I think Jennifer and I are so intrigued by this that we wont let it rest... I did start looking last night before I even added to your thread.


Dee x

Whow Jennifer that is great

I was trying to find great aunts but to get it back to Great grandmother is a lot more than I expected.

I looked up Dawson Butcher and there are so many of them!!

Anne

this looks like Isabella (seniors ) marriage

Marriages Mar 1887
DAWSON William Taylor W. Derby 8b 676
Smith Isabella W. Derby 8b 676

and his death

Deaths Jun 1890

Dawson William Taylor 54 W. Derby 8b 225

and ? hers

Deaths Mar 1893

Dawson Isabella 60 W.Derby 8b 226

Hi Dee

that is very kind of you.

Unfortunately I don't know anything tangible it is all recorded memory. I would think Aunt Isabella came back after 1900. My Mother was born in 1911, but I'm pretty sure that if she did actually meet them she would have been very tiny.

I have a photo of Isabella taken by Ying Cheong, Tinentsin China. She is wearing a milk maid costume and he is dressed as a jockey. They look very young. Unfortunately no date.

Thanks all your help and advice
Anne

Anne,

do you have a rough date that they came back to the UK.... I'm willing to spend some time on this for you as it is sooo interesting.


Dee x

Hi Jennifer

I had looked on the 1891 census on Find my past

It is different
Dawson - Isabella - Head -widow - 50 - 1841 - Butcher
The rest of the info is the same.
Where did you find this census?

I was keeping an open mind on this as I was told that when Henry's father died he was brought up by his aunts and had assumed it was Alice who married a Yorkshire Pig farmer ( Name unknown)and she became a butcher when "times were bad"

My Grandfather went to work as a butcher for his Uncles Zachamiah and Jeremiah ( Surname unknown)

He moved South and became a Company Director of a large meat importers
Poor Isabella, she did not have much luck with her men!!

Thanks Jennifer
I had not thought of that.

Yes they did come back to England on a visit because we still have the presents they brought. Also My mother said they brought servants, She was most surprised as her cousins "did not know how to dress themselves and couldn't even button their own gloves"!!!!
I let my subs to ancestry go.

At the moment I am trawling through the marriages of Smiths.No names shriek from my memory, not that I expected them to.

Anne

1891 it looks as if Isabella (senior) married again and is again a widow, it is badly transcribed this nut i think it is them

Isabella Daurora (acually Dawson on the image)
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Cumberland, Workington

Civil parish: Kirkdale
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Kirkdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Butcher

Condition as to marriage:widow
Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Kirkdale
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Isabella Daurora 55 (Dawson)
Joseph Smith 28 son
Henry E Smith 16 son
William T Dawson 10 step son
May L Foster 21 daughter born Garston/married
Eliza Harrison 10 (16 on image)

servant

Anne how frustrating for you. I can see how you would find the story of the aunt going to China fascinating.

Just a thought but could you look on 'Incoming Passenger List' on Ancestry, I only have Essential otherwise I would look.

It would have been unusual I think to go to China and never come back to England for a break. I 'lost' a gt uncle from 1891 till he turned up on the passenger list in 1930 with a wife returning from Rangoon, Burma.

I know you haven't a surname but you could search on first name, age and place of departure and see what comes up.
China in the late 1890's early 1900's was a place of great upheaval, 1901 saw the Boxer Uprising and many English people came home but went back again.

Good Luck, Jennifer

thanks Sylvia

I am finding my Smith family very difficult to find. Not only because they are "Smith" but because my Mother was very much the youngest child of a youngest child she did not know the family as her parents had moved south before she was born. Also, although I got her to write down what she knew, a lot of it is acquired memory and she knew no surnames of married aunts, as was normal then.

Anne.

Here she is on the 1871 Census

Note that this census says she was born in Manchester, but they are living in the parish of Garston, West Derby, Liverpool


1871 Census

Name: Isabella Smith
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Isabella
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester
Civil parish: Garston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Micheal
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Wavertree

Joseph Smith 39 b.ca 1832, Staffordshire, Foreman Omnibus Branch
Isabella Smith 38 b.ca 1833, Workington, Cumberland
Joseph Smith 8 b.ca 1863, Liverpool
Isabella Smith 6
Allie Smith 3 b.ca 1868, Garston, West Derby
Mary Louisa Smith 1 year, 5 months b.ca 1869, Garston
Mary Smith 82 b.ca 1789, Uttoxeter, Staffordshire, Widow <<<< Doesn't say, but I wonder if she is Joseph's mother???
Henry Starkey 38 Boarder, born Belfast, Ireland

Address:- 14 Monar Street



sylvia

Thanks your help
Unfortunately this is the only census ref I have found for her

Does anyone know if there are any Chinese company records?

Henry was my Grandfather and his father died soon after this and the family was dispersed. My Grandfather was brought up by his older sister Alice.
Anne

just for ref 1881
Name: Isabella Smith
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Isabella
Gender: Female
Where born: Garston, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Kirkdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 46 Leison Street
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Apprentice Boot & Shoe Shop

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Kirkdale
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Smith 49
Isabella Smith 48
Joseph Smith 18
Isabella Smith 16
Alice Smith 13
Mary L. Smith 11
Henry Smith 6

unfortunately there are a lot of marriages for an Isabella Smith in West Derby reg district (the district that contains Garstan)

Can anyone help with this
My great Aunt Isabella Smith born in Garston Lancashire in 1865?
Daughter of Joseph Smith Born 1832 Uttoxeter staffordshire & Isabella Smith.
According to my Mother, she married a water engineer (name unknown) who became manager of water installations of Peking.

She lived a very "luxurious " life. She had two daughters Florence and Mabel. One married a German & the other a Russian prior to the first world war. My Mother thinks she is buried in Bubbling Well Cemetery Peking. Which is now a park called Jingxan-park.

I would love to know who my Uncle was & what happened to his daughters