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forgot to say that the image for Henry and Hannah Smith said 3 children born alive , 1 still living also Henry was working for a Meat Purveyors (James Nelson I presume though it doesn't say)

Anne I didn't think it was him as I remembered you said they were butchers.

I see that in 1911 age 36 Henry and his wife and daughter were in Ilford, Essex though his daughter was born in Strood Kent.

I have searched for Zachamiah as it is such an unusual name but no luck. If an uncle could be maternal or paternal or even a Dawson from mother's second marriage.

Unfortunately this can't be him as they were butchers!!!. My mother writes that he learnt his trade from them at at the age of 25 he was sent to Kent as under-manager of a branch of James Nelson Ltd. He rose to become a director of the firm. I know a lot of what my Mother wrote was hearsay as she was too young to know but the names are so distinctive.
Anne

I am very lucky regarding Henry as he married Hannah Wigley and Graham Giles as done a marvellous job on a web site Giles and Wigley families of Kent.
Anne

Anne the only Jeremiah coming up on 1911 that has any surname connected to your family is this one:
1911 census transcription details for: 7 Halton Bank Pendleton Salford

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN23955 RG78PN1381 RD465 SD1 ED24 SN6


Reg. District: Salford Sub District: Pendleton
Parish: Pendleton Enum. District: 24

Address: 7 Halton Bank Pendleton Salford
County: Lancashire


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

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WIGLEY, Jeremiah Head Married M 69 1842 Estate Agent Manchester Lanc

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WIGLEY, Emma Wife Married
45 years F 70 1841 Manchester Lanc

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WIGLEY, Clara Daughter Single F 29 1882 No Business Assists In House At Home Salford Lancashire

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WIGLEY, Caroline Gertrude Daughter Single F 26 1885 No Business Assist Salford Lancashire

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HOLBROOK, Caroline Louisa Visitor Widow F 83 1828 No Busieness Manchester Lancashire

There is no one with the first name Zachamiah

Alice & Alfred were married W.Derby March 1887 Volume 8b Page 676
Anne

Anne the 1911 is not on Ancestry yet is is a separate sub via FMP
youy grandfather Henry in 1911
1911 census transcription details for: 11 Bengal Road Ilford Lane Ilford

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN9892 RG78PN521B RD191 SD2 ED43 SN225


Reg. District: Romford Sub District: Ilford
Parish: Ilford Enum. District: 43

Address: 11 Bengal Road Ilford Lane Ilford
County: Essex


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMITH, Henry Edward Head Married M 36 1875 Store Keeper And Clerk Lancs Liverpool

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SMITH, Hannah Eleanor Wife Married
9 years F 30 1881 Kent Strood

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SMITH, Evelyn May Daughter F 8 1903 London Manor Pk

Thanks ...I have not got 1911 census as the sub for Ancestry has run out and I don't want to renew it until sept when I return from holiday.
Anne

Alice and family in 1911
1911 census transcription details for: 325 Aigburth Road Aigburth Liverpool

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN22681 RG78PN1328 RD455 SD11 ED28 SN432


Reg. District: West Derby Sub District: Wavertree
Parish: Garston Enum. District: 28

Address: 325 Aigburth Road Aigburth Liverpool
County: Lancashire


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATKINSON, Alfred Head Married M 46 1865 Butcher Addingham Yorks

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ATKINSON, Alice Wife Married
24 years F 43 1868 Assisting In Business Garston

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ATKINSON, Ethel Daughter Single F 21 1890 Household Duties Liverpool

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ATKINSON, Gladys Daughter Single F 15 1896 Assisting In Business Liverpool

it says 6 children 3 still living

Hi all... back again after a very interesting but unfruitful trip to Devon. So back to the Smiths. So To recap

Joseph Smith b 1832 Staffordshire
Married Isabella Cowen b 1833 Cumberland d 15/2/1883
Isabella Married 19/1/1885 William Taylor Dawson b1836 Liverpool d 18/4/1890
Isabella Had:-
Joseph Smith b 1863
Isabella Smith b1865
Alice Smith b 1868
Mary Louisa Smith b 1870
Henry Smith b 1875
&stepson William l Dawson b 1881

Joseph Smith- Mother said Jo married Margaret (Maggie) & lived in Stanley Park Litherfield. A gated park with several other houses. They had 4 sons and 1 daughter, the youngest called Cowen.
1901 census Joseph lived with
Margaret wife b 1867
Herbert C Son b 1894
Joseph R Son 1896
Elsie M Son 1899
Norman W Son 1900

Isabella -Mother said she married a water engineer & travelled to Peking and was buried in Bubbling Well Cemetery, Peking. She had two daughters Florence and Mabel, one married a Russian and the other a German prior to 1914
1881 census - she was an apprentice in a boot & shoe shop.
19/1/1885 married William Alfred Cattelle age 23 engineer b 1861 in Buffalo USA
1891 census- with William's mother on Isle of Man and her daughter Mabel b 22/10/1887 at Walton Lancs

Alice Smith - Mother wrote that she married a Yorkshire pig farmer she visited them about 1922 in a large farmhouse. Lowfield Farm, Knotty Ash.
1891 census - married to Alfred Attinson son of Henry Attinson a farmer.
Ethal daughter b 1891 Liverpool

Mary Louise - Mother said she was called Polly. She married a man in the tea business. They had one son who became manager of Martins Bank Liverpool.
1901 census... with Joseph Foster b 1865 Manchester
Harold son b 1895 Liverpool

Henry - married my grandmother Hannah Eleanor Wigley. They had 4 children. My mother said he went to work with his Uncles Jeremiah & Zachamiah.

William Dawson- my mother did not mention him.
1901 census boarder with Joseph and Mary Louisa.

What I am trying to find is

Anything about Isabella Cattelle's family
Who were Jeremiah & zachamiah
What happened to Alice and how come she came to live in Knotty Ash.

LOOK UP PLEASE
Regarding the first I have found a web site where you can look up the newspaper the North China Herald it is www.the newspaperarchive.com but you need a subscription.

Thanks Anne

Hi Ann, what a good result, so pleased for you. Have a break from 'your aunt living in China' for a while and enjoy your 3 day research trip. After a break you may get some inspiration.

Jennifer

At Last ... I have the certs..... but don't you know it I am rushing around today getting ready to go away tomorrow for three days researching the other side oft he family.

Anyway I won't keep you in suspense any longer!!!!

Marriage..... 13 Jan 1885
Sharon Hall Baptist Church West Derby Lancs by certificate
Names...William Alfred Cattelle 23 yrs
Isabella Smith 21 yrs
Occupation ..Engineer
Address.....72 Eaton Street, Walton
17 Kirkdale ( dale) Kirkdale
Fathers William Ebeneza Cattelle deceased.. Engineer
Joseph Smith Smith Deceased ..... Omnibus fore-manager

Witnesses Earnest Edwin Cattelle & Alice Smith

Second cert

Birth ... 22 Oct 1887 at 72 Eaton Street Walton Lancs
Name.. Mabel
Father...... William Alfred Cattle
Mother... Isabella Cattelle formally Smith
Occupation.. Marine engineer

You found them I don't know how you did it!!! Wonderful !! but where do we go to from here... I can't go running out to China, not that I will find her as the cemetery is now cleared and is a Park and where is Florance? I thought she was the elder sister.

Anne

Yes
I think I have found the farm that my Mother visited when she was about 11 yrs old that would have been about 1920. She went there to visit Alice and an Uncle. I think the farm was "Brock a Bank Addingham Yorkshire" Atkinson Snr. is living there in the 1871 census. But I don't think Alice lived there.


Still can't find Zachamiah and Jeremiah, and poor Isabella's is still in Limbo. Can't wait for the certs!!!!. If they are correct I have found an American site which looks interesting where they have some English Language Chinese newspapers. Unfortunately you have to subscribe to look up info. So will need to know we are on the right track before I ask for help there.
Anne

1901
Alfred Atkinson
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Alice
Gender: Male
Where born: Addingham, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
:


Registration district: Toxteth Park
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 46
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred Atkinson 36 occ: Butcher's Manager
Alice Atkinson 33
Ethel Atkinson 11
Frederick Atkinson 9
Gladys Atkinson 5

looks like it:
From Lancashire BMD's
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ATKINSON Alfred SMITH Alice West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/110/196

from FreeBMD
Marriages Mar 1887

ATKINSON Alfred W Derby 8b 676

So Anne did Alice Smith marry the Alfred Atkinson who was a witness at her mother's wedding in 1887?

Well back again

Two more certs... but....not the one we wanted.

William Taylor Dawson... Died 18/5/1890
Address ..1 Osborne Close
Age.. 54
Occupation... Car Proprietor
Cause..... peritonitis
Informant....J Smith, son in law>>>> this would be Joseph ( Jo)

My mother writes.. Jo married Margaret and lived in a house in a gated complex in Stanley park, Litherland . They had four sons and one daughter. ( No names ..of course)and a son named Cowen. Very strict Baptists

The second cert also a death

Isabella Dawson
Date and Place ... 15 Feb 1893 of 12 Eastbourne st
Age.. 60 yrs
Informant........ A Atkinson, daughter of 10 Eastborne St Everton

My mother writes that Alice married a pig farmer from Yorkshire. She became a butcher and continued to raise pigs( I hope not at 10 Eastborne St !!!) She had a had a son & a daughter

So now at last I have a few more names to try, at least they are not Smith.
Still waiting for Isabella(Daughter) Marriage cert.
Anne

Yes it is and is very interesting as in the 1891 census her occupation is Butcher. My grandfather's occupation is also a butcher. My Mother said he went to work for his Uncles Jeremiah & Zacharmiah. There are other Dawson butchers on the 81 census but they are Charles & Alfred, but i have not found these two uncles

Anne

Anne isn't it frustrating when they all come at different times, I'm still waiting for one.

The marriage cert you have got for Isabella Smith must be your gt grandmother's second marriage to William Taylor Dawson. I don't think he lasted long if I remember rightly!


Jennifer

Hi ..I have just looked up my emails and I ordered it on 25 March. Together with Mabel's birth. I suppose they are running slow due to extra work as people were trying to beat the price going up
Anne