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hi julie
the address on marriage cert is the same as marys death cert,i asked mum,because death one says 21&marriage says 23,apparently the street had a large field separating it in the middle &they moved from one end to the other .

His age is spot on isn't it. He'd be 20 next birthday in August 1925 if he was born 1915. So it's looking very likely that you have the correct birth certificate.

It would be interesting to know what Elizabeth says about her marital status in 1911. I'll go find her again in the hope that some kind person with a sub will look at the image.

Julie

whats puzzling me is if elizabeth was his true mum ,why did he live with mary,he got married from her home address,elizabeth was in burnley on 1911 census,with daughter florence aged 10,why did norman not know about her or may who we think died in 1901-1903

If Elizabeth Cropper was born in Royton maybe Norman was baptised there. Will try that when I get home.
It could not have been Chadderton as the RC church was not opened until 1916 & it is most likely that he was baptised not too long after birh

have been on cheshire bmd,1873-1878,if john was born in crewe,hes not on it,checked john &john edward no luck

norman was born 20 taylor st oldham

wish I could find Norman & sidney's baptism. Sorry to keep asking questions I know I could go back & find answers to (having difficulty getting used to Vista) but was it Taylor St on Norman's birth cert? Was that in Oldham itself or eg Royton?

probably just coincidence cos I can't find an Esther with matching mmn to Sarah

yes arthurs 1st wife sarah heywood

may be coincidence but there is a (probably RC) marriage of a Joseph Stanton to an Esther Heywood in 1932. Do I remember another Heywood/Jones marriage somewhere?

Wouldn't it be nice if John edward had left a will??

hi ann yes normans sister

so that witness fits with the baptism record note of Rose Ann Jones marrying Samuel(?) Hill

hi witness name is stanton or stantin

hi the bits i could not read .
iron plate moulder textile machinery.
annies address11 cross st.
still not sure of witness surname
wedding could be 26th not 25th

off to try &get some help reading this cert , will be back later

At last**************

hi every one
well it is hear ,not a good copy but will do my best.
25th jan 1935
norman patrick age 19.-23 cardinal st
annie lockhart age 18.-11,not clear at the moment.
john edward jones-deceased-iron plate moulder.
(something else written cannot read it will have to get help foe that bit,)
thomas alfred lockhart-salesman.
witnesses rose ann hill,&joseph manlin or hanlin ?

let me know if you need anything else,i am going to try &see what i can make out on the cert

annies dad is also deceased

hi ann
nice to hear from you i was wondering were you was,
hoping it will be hear tomorrow,if they feed the donkey enough carrots.

the gro is keeping us all in suspense!
I am still watching this thread but am away from home at the moment and not used to this laptop. If not sorted by the time I next have wifi access (after tomorrow prob not until 10 May) will see if there are other lookups which will help

well i have gone through the records for crewe , cannot find john, maybe he was born in wales like he said