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just a thought i am not 100%certain but i think that elizabeth had a sister mary i wonder if may is her daughter i think i remember seeing her in the marriages &that must mean she married a jones i hope my memory is not playing tricks

what a strange family i come from i do have marys death cert leonard was informant but if john&mary did not marry the children obviously didnt know

That means he got married 1898 which points to the Cropper one *if* he married in Oldham.

Thats ok Martyn - I wasn't expecting you to have all the answers - just throwing out questions in general. If May Jones died she should be on freebmd & I can't find a likely one, nor can I find a likely one in 1901 or 1911.

Julie

julie on 1911 census which is on this thread it says john is 36 married 13 years &was born1875 that means he got married 1911 but i cannot find it any ideas

hi julie i cannot answer any of your questions at the moment i said earlier what had happened to may because lancs bmd has not done oldham deaths yet i only have genes to go off &that doesnt give you a lot

have just re-read the whole thread but not sure I'm any wiser.

I DO still think the 1911 census on here is probably the correct one - too much of a coincidence with all those childrens names.

The Elizabeth Jones death 1915 is not conclusive as an Elizabeth H Jones died in the same qtr as John E Jones:

Deaths Jun 1927 (>99%)

Jones Elizabeth H 55 Oldham 8d 840

Jones John E 53 Oldham 8d 840

Questions:

Who is May on that 1911 census - is it Mary with age out by 10 years?

What happened to Jack? (John Edward Jones b 1902 mmn Manning?)

What happened to May Jones b1899 mmn Cropper?

Julie

i have looked again at the death john e jones age 53 1927 apr-may-jun-8d 840 i cannot get any other info it means the birth is 1874 so it is the right time span

yes its a pity

Oldham deaths are not yet on lancsbmd

no i have no idea when he died i did find a death in 1927 on genes but it is not on lancsbmd unless i have missed it i do not know if elizabeth was catholic but mary was &if she brought norman up after his mothers death it would of been catholic.sorry i forgot he was a moulder in a ironworks

I know it may be somewhere in these 17 pages but do you know when Norman father died. If he left a will it might be useful. I've also forgotten what his occupation was.

I agree with Julie - if only dreams could help between us we would have it cracked. I too go to bed wondering what we are missing

Any comment on the fact that the Jones / Cropper marriage was not RC?

hi jan john edward was in the 24th battalion manchester regiment ww1

i dont know why there is a gap between may &norman but john was obviously having a relationship with mary in those days the male did what he wanted maybe elizabeth was not a well woman or she would not entertain him because of mary have you any ideas

seem to remember you said granfather was in ww1 do you have any info on i.e regt. as we could look for him in ancestry records

have had a look cannot see mary jones but may is there also put jones 1915 all lancs only one norman 1915 oldham the other normans not in that area

hi jan when i spoke to the register office it was the only norman they had

i dont know if elizabeth was catholic but mary was if she brought norman up after the death of his mother it would have been catholic i will look up mary jones on lancsbmd it is there for may mmn cropper

I also wonder about the 2 dob's in 1915 the birth cert you have and the death info (which of course is only what the person registering it knows) are we 100%certain the birth cert is the right one

If John married Elizabeth Cropper in 1898 why have the children between then & 1915 got mmn Leicester or Manghan?

Also that marriage was at St Mary's Cof E not RC so should we looking for Norman's baptism in CofE?