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hi jan
this seems like a break through although i am not sure about normans birth we should know a bit more when i get the marriage cert that should give his age &hopefully we can count back &sort it out ,i hope gene lets us have all the details that he has

hello gene
norman was my grandad ,i do remember arthur they lived in shaw &ada made my wedding cake could you let us have details of john&marys wedding as we have not been able to find it thanks martyn
my mum was normans daughter brenda

can you give us the index for the marriage of Mary and Edward please as this has be a problem for all of us!!

Hi Martyn, My great grandparents were John and Mary and my grandad was Arthur, Normans brother. My grandad before he died managed to remember bits of information regarding his mum and dad which helped me to start searching. Mary was born in Kilbeggan in Ireland 1November 1876, her maiden name was Mangan although she used variations on baptisms of her children etc. She married Peter Leicester in Oldham in 1898 had two children, Peter and Ellen but Peter died as a baby. She was a widow by 1900 and then she met John Edward. (have bmd certificates for all this info). John Edward Jones Jnr (Jack) was born 1902, the other childrens names I have from baptism records are Joseph, Arthur, Rose Ann, Norman (?Thomas) Leonard and Sydney. I dont have birth certicates for any of the children though.

Hope this helps.

Have checked the actual images of the GRO birth indexes for each quarter of 1912 and there is no Norman Jones born in Oldham and no Norman Jones born anywhere else with the mmn that we've become familiar with.

Julie

hi jan&ann
no cert today again interesting what gene has said i have checked freebmd &lancs bmd i cannot see norman wonder if gene has the other children born to john hopefully we will hear again off gene with a few facts

wonder why I did not notice that baptism at Our Lady. Maybe I missed it as was looking for Aug/sep birth. For my own curiosity (not because I doubt Gene1) I must look again next time.

The only Jones I can find on lancsbmd in 1912 is a Thomas - he did have mmn = Manning

so Normans birth is now a puzzle as you say born 5th March baptised April(not sure which birth index this is) Martyn has birth on death cert as 5th Aug. and a birth cert. 15th Sept 1915!!

Thanks for info ,so boys won't have same father then.

hi gene1
thanks for the info,i will have to study this i would be grateful if you could if you could help with any details, could we be related ,were do john &mary fit into your family line regards martyn

Hi Jan,

1881 census oldham:
Ann Jones charwoman Wid aged 33 born wales
John Jones U aged 5 born crewe cheshire
John Booth Lodger aged 44 born Oldham

1891 census oldham:
Ann Jones charwoman aged 46 born Wrexham
John E Jones 16 born cheshire crewe
Thomas Jones 4 born Oldham

1901 census oldham:
Ann Jones Charwoman aged 51 born caernarvon
Thomas Jones aged 14 born oldham

Ann's maiden name was Davies as I have Thomas' birth certificate who was born in 1887.

I have tried many reg offices in wales and cheshire but have not found John Edwards birth. Apparently he always said he was from caernarvon but I have had no luck there either. Ann died in 1905 and John Edward died in 1927,

The only info I have so far on Norman is that his birth was 5 Mar 1912 and he was baptized 7 April 1912 at Our Lady of Mount Carmel and St Patricks RC Church. They lived at 32 Cromwell street and mothers maiden name was recorded as Manning (Mary used several different surnames on her childrens bapisms I have found).

Hope this is helpful. I should be able to piece a few more details together just need to look at what has already been posted in more detail.

gene1 as you see we have done a lot on this thread. Do you know about Norman etc! could you post 1881 and 1891 info please

Hi Martin, I have just noticed your queries on john edward and mary jones. I have been doing my family history for a while now and have lots of info. John edward has been difficult to trace as 1881 and 1891 census states he was born in crewe but 1911 census states dolgelly. mary however was born in Ireland and I have lots of info on her family so may be able to help fill in your missing pieces of the jigsaw.

I would not hold your breath Martyn! Due presumably to the number of requests sent in to beat the price rise I believe there is a back log. I know I have not received the ones I ordered before Easter yet.

They say patience is a virtue but I guess I am not that virtuous!

hi all
just thought i would let you know it still hasnt come yet ,
they like to take there time dont they hopefully it will be here monday regards martyn

hi jan
no i didnt know thanks for that .

If it helps do you know that you can search 1911 census for free at Norfolk Record Office ?

Thats great - it's helping to confirm the theories that she used different names to register the children and that it's the correct family in 1911.

Julie

hi ann,jan,&julie
just thought i would let you know ,had a chat with mum today she says she remembers talk of a jack but she never saw him,she didnt remember earlier as i asked about john edward and she didnt make the connection regards martyn
she said he never lived at home&she only knew the ones mentioned

thanks julie the birth year 1876 would be correct on count back from death cert