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Hmmm not so happy about this 1891 entry. Looks like she is Elizabeth Ann-so what happened to the middle name Hannah? She is born Royton though.

Ancestry have totally mistranscribed this entry, calling them Fitzgerald after another family on the page so I have edited it to show what's on the image:

1891 England Census
about Elizabeth Am Cropper
Name: Elizabeth Am Cropper
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation: Sister-in-law
Gender: Female
Where born: Royton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Habergham Eaves
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: Burnley
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors: View others on page
Mary Ann Cropper 35 wife
Mary Ellen Lord 14 dau
Walter Cropper 9 son
Elizabeth Am Cropper 21 sister in law

Richard is not there.

The main thing that leads us to believe she is the right Elizabeth Cropper is the birthplace as per Lancashire bmd:

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1869
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
CROPPER Elizabeth Hannah Royton Oldham GREENWOOD

But I'm a bit concerned about the possible name difference. perhaps someone else could give an opinion.

Will check back in tomorrow after work.............

Julie

well done julie,you sound like you are enjoying yourself,this cropper line is comming together nicely now thanks to you.

just found on a bit of paper elizabeth was in burnley in 1891

If I have the right family 1861 to 1891 it looks like Jane was Elizabeth's sister:

1861 England Census
about Edmund Cropper
Name: Edmund Cropper
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Wardleworth; Rochdale, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Spotland
Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement
Town: Rochdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Spotland Nearer Side
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Edmund Cropper 30
Mary Cropper 29
Martha Cropper 8 born Haslingden
Richard Cropper 5 born Bacup
Jane Cropper 1 born Wardleworth



1871 England Census
about Jane Cropper
Name: Jane Cropper
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edmund
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Wardleworth
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Rochdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Wardleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 78
Household Members:
Name Age
Edmund Cropper 42
Mary Cropper 41
Richard Cropper 15
Jane Cropper 12
Samuel Cropper 6
Benjamin Cropper 5
Elizabeth Cropper 2

All born Rochdale


1881 England Census
about Ben Cropper
Name: Ben Cropper
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Rochedale, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Oldham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 8 Martin Street
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Peicer

Registration district: Oldham
Sub-registration district: Oldham Below Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Cropper 50
Samul Cropper 15
Ben Cropper 14
Elizebeth Cropper 12
Walter Cropper 7

All born rochdale

Off to find them in 1891...........

it will be a while before i can get the info,gene is on hols for 2 weeks

Hi Martyn
Yesterday you posted this:

"apparently there is a jones family grave in greenacres cemetry,john is buried there he died may 1927,thomas aged 18 months,sarah 1933 arthurs 1st wife,&2 infants with surname leicester?"

It would be really interesting to know who the 2 infant Leicesters were. Can you try and find out? I'll come back shortly with the census info I've found.

Julie

no cert today!
julie, on the census that gene posted 1881/91,it says john was born in crewe,but he denied this &1911 census its dollgelly?so there may be a crewe conection,but i do not know why elizabeth should of been there,john was obviously living in oldham,unless she left when mary came along.i do believe that mary may be normans mum,not sure why mmn is cropper unless mary thought it would be fun to do so?

i will be back later this evening to answer any questions
regards martyn

There are quite a few potential Grindrod/Cropper marriages but this looks likely:

Marriages Sep 1881
>>>CROPPER Jane Rochdale 8e 12
FIELDING John Rochdale 8e 12
>>>GRINDROD Joseph Rochdale 8e 12
Roskell Ellen Rochdale 8e 12

Will look in earlier census' tomorrow to see if Jane is Elizabeth's sister.

Martyn - I've edited my earlier post re Florence/May.

Julie

i cannot get my head around this,to tired,going to bed now,if normans cert arrives tomorrow what will that show.
not more confusion i hope ,thanks for all your work today,
what a rum family.

Looking at the image i believe it says

Ches. Crewe.

I can see that the w could also be construed as iv but if you look at the G for Grindrod it is very different to the C for Crewe.

Julie

i am very confused.
why does it say born ches greive?
were or what does it mean
it is on original census as well as the printed

Maybe that's a mistranscription of Chester Crewe Martyn?

Doing a free search in Rochdale 1911 brings up several Grindrod households so I won't post them all but Elizabeth Jones aged 40 and Florence Jones aged 10 are in amongst them.

So -is Florence really May? Not if she is only 8 months old as that would make her born 1900.

Martyn - I've edited this post because the difference in birth dates for May & Florence made nonsense of what I'd put!

Originally I'd been looking for a death for May Jones in Oldham but if they moved to Crewe where Florence was born then this is a possibility:

Deaths Mar 1901 (>99%)
Jones May 1 Chester 8a 248

Only a possiblity mind as there is also a May Jones born Chester 1899 (Chester being the reg district for Crewe)

This fits with the 8 month old Florence in 1901

Births Sep 1900 (>99%)
Jones Florence Chester 8a 417

Julie

were is ches greive?
on 1901 on this site it says florence was born there

i wonder if she was with her family as john was in boer war?
or was she packed off as mary must have been on the scene in 1901 as she had john edward in 1902.

Just for the record that 1901 census I posted is mistranscribed. The image has the name Mary J Marcas with a line through and then she appears in a different household further down the page. These are the other members of the household with Richard Cropper & Elizabeth Jones:

Joseph Grindrod 41
Jane Grindrod 40
Elizabeth A Grindrod 18
Edmund Grindrod 17

Also Florence Marcas appears to be Florence Grindrod.

Julie

also in pm may could have died in 1903?
not sure about florence,could she be may?
apparently there is a jones family grave in greenacres cemetry,john is buried there he died may 1927,thomas aged 18 months,sarah 1933 arthurs 1st wife,&2 infants with surname leicester?
you have done excellent finding her now lets hope we can continue to make progress

Got her!

The A could be an H on the image:

1901 England Census
about Elizabeth A Jones
Name: Elizabeth A Jones
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Royton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Rochdale
Ecclesiastical parish: Spotland St Clement
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Spotland Further Side
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary J Marcas 30
Florence Marcas 13
Richard Cropper 45
Elizabeth A Jones 31
Florence Jones 8 months

This is really interesting. We have Florence (presumably May?) and her birthplace is given as Crewe Cheshire.

Julie

hi julie
i have been writing it all down ,told to me by phone&also a pm.
johnedward jones age 24,address 4 court lord st father owen jones mother ann jones mn davies.
elizabeth cropper age 25 but realy 29,
address 57 yorkshire st .father edmund cropper,mothermary cropper mmn greenwood,
elizabeth born 1869 in royton.she had a brother richard,
not sure when he was born but he married mary ann lord ,1878 in burnley,
1851/61 edmund&mary in rochdale.1871 edmund died,
in 1891 the family lived in habergsham eaves in burnley

Was that her address on marriage or has someone found her in 1901?

There are 3 E H Croppers born Lancs:

Births Jun 1860 (>99%)
CROPPER Elizabeth Hannah Bolton 8c 297 Scan available - click to view
Births Mar 1864 (>99%)
CROPPER Elizabeth Hannah Bury 8c 410 Scan available - click to view
Births Mar 1869 (>99%)
CROPPER Elizabeth Hannah Oldham 8d 649

I think I found the first two in earlier census' but couldn't pin down the Oldham one. If that is her she would have been 29 on marriage. If someone has the date of marriage do they also know father's name as that would help to pin her down.

Julie

hi everyone
thought i would let you know.
if that is my john edward who married elizabeth cropper,
2 people have given the date 20 feb 1898,
john was 24.
elizabeth is down at 25 but she appears to have taken 4yrs of her age, which could be why julie could not find her,she lived at 57 yorkshire st oldham