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OK. Let's start again. I have left the comparison on the two James Gardiners married to Jane. I have deleted all my theories. I am confusing when I'm musing!!

Frisco.... Please tell us

You have a James Gardiner married to an Emma. How do you know this.

What is James' middle name and his date of birth.

What is Emma's maiden name. Date of birth?

Disregard the Gardiners married to Jane at this point.

We know from the census that James Gardiner was living with Emma and has at least three children.

Is the census where you have sourced their marriage?

Oh and PS. Please do not be concerned about "not being good at this". If you stick to it, believe me, by the time you sort out this little puzzle, you will be good at it!! One step at a time.

Oh Heck, I'm off to take another couple of aspirin....your confused Frisco I have completely lost the plot!

Will have to wait for AuniteSherlocks next move!

Annx

Hey, thanks again for the info...and now I'm really confused.....the James I am looking for was married to an Emma at some point and because I found no trace of them in any other cenus or marriage record etc I assumed he married again to Jane because he absolutely fits the description (James Gardiner born in 1849 in St Luke and a marble polisher.) I cannot find a marriage record anywhere for him and Jane or him and Emma....why would this be? I'm not very good at this...Thanks again

Is this guy one of the above 2 or is there an epidemic of them:

1881 Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James GARDNER Head M Male 31 London, London, Middlesex, England Marble Polisher (Mason)
Emma GARDNER Wife M Female 32 London, London, Middlesex, England
Alexander GARDNER Son Male 9 London, London, Middlesex, England
James GARDNER Son Male 6 London, London, Middlesex, England
William GARDNER Son Male 4 London, London, Middlesex, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 1 Green Arbour Court
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341079
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0366 / 66
Page Number 6

Civil parish: St Luke Old St
Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: Whitecross Street

Auntie,

Will have to go and take 2 aspirin after your last post! lol

Annx

Thankyou thankyou thankyou for the v.helpful info..v much appreciated

1911 Jane a widow born 1855 St Lukes
James son married a Tailor born Cripplegate 1876
Rolly daughter in law born Hoxton 1878
Harry 1885
George married born 1886
John married born 1890
Joseph 1895
Matilda 1892
Address 70,Brittania Street
Hoxton.

Maryb

1901 the James born Clerkenwell is now in Hoxton New Town district 3 image 46 13,Sylvia Street he is now a general labourer same kids as on 1891 + James age 24,Matilda 8 and Joseph 6.

Can't see the other James and Jane.

They were both married before 1881 but i can't see them as yet.

Maryb

17 Boot St and 17 Bart Street? another coincidence, have you noticed the first family has two sons with the same name also!

Ann

But they have the same family pretty much and were born the same year in the same place.(St Luke is in the district of Clerkenwell they're interchangeable)..oh well ..thanks for all your help..I shall investigate further..

census - household transcription
Person: GARDINER, James
Address: 20, Wilmer Gardens, Shoreditch

Cost:
You will be charged 3 credits for a transcript and 3 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results 1891 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GARDINER, James Head Married M 42 1849 Marble Polisher
Clerkenwell
London VIEW
GARDINER, Jane Wife Married F 36 1855
St Luke
London VIEW
GARDINER, Mary Ann Daughter Single F 13 1878
St Luke
London VIEW
GARDINER, Henry Son M 8 1883
St Luke
London VIEW
GARDINER, George Son M 6 1885
St Luke
London VIEW
GARDINER, John Son M 0 (10M) 1891
Shoreditch
London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
251 Folio:
109 Page:
6

Registration District:
Shoreditch Sub District:
Haggerston EnumerationDistrict:
5 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Andrews

Civil Parish:
Shoreditch Municipal Borough:
Address:
20, Wilmer Gardens, Shoreditch County:
London


This is the other one with a jane but surname the same spelling?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

census search results 1891 address search redefine current search
© findmypast.co.uk

There diffinately not the same person,you just have two James gardeners one born St Luke's and the other Clerkenwell who both happen to be Mason Marble Polishers.
Of course they could be related in some way.

Maryb

census - household transcription
Person: GARDINER, James
Address: 17, Boot Street, Shoreditch, London

Cost:
You will be charged 3 credits for a transcript and 3 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results 1891 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GARDINER, James Head Married M 42 1849 Marble Polisher
St Luke
London VIEW
GARDINER, Jane Wife Married F 37 1854
St Luke
London VIEW
GARDINER, Harry Son Single M 13 1878 Scholar
St Luke
London VIEW
GARDINER, Harry Son Single M 8 1883 Scholar
St Luke
London VIEW
GARDINER, George Son Single M 5 1886 Scholar
St Luke
London VIEW
GARDINER, John Son Single M 1 (12M) 1890
St Luke
London VIEW
GARDINER, William Son Single M 0 (1W) 1891
St Luke
London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
248 Folio:
18 Page:
29

Registration District:
Shoreditch Sub District:
Hoxton New Town EnumerationDistrict:
1 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Peters

Civil Parish:
Shoreditch Municipal Borough:
Shoreditch Address:
17, Boot Street, Shoreditch, London County:
London

Is this your family?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

census search results 1891 address search redefine current search
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17 Boot St Shoreditch - Gardiner

20 Wilmer Gardens Shoreditch - Gardiner

I can find these two "Gardiner" in the 1891 census on Ancestry. When I change the search to Gardener with the same criteria it come up blank

Name: James Gardiner
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell, London, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: Hoxton St Andrew
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Haggerston
ED, institution, or vessel: 5a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Gardiner 42 Jane Gardiner 36 Mary Ann Gardiner 13
Henry Gardiner 8 George Gardiner 6 John Gardiner 10/12
Occupation is Marble Polisher
Address is 20 Wilmer Gardens Shoreditch - Gardiner


Second family

Name: James Gardiner
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: St Luke, London, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Hoxton Old Town
Household Members: Name Age
James Gardiner 42 Jane Gardiner 37 Harry Gardiner 13
Harry Gardiner 8 George Gardiner 5 John Gardiner 12/12
William Gardiner 1/12
Occupation is Marble polisher (with mason written lightly beside that)

Hi, is this just a coincidence? 1891 census..looking for a James Gardiner/Gardener born 1849 ish St Lukes, marble polisher/stone mason. Found two fitting the description at two different addresses with remarkably similar M.O...one is a James Gardiner and the other is James Gardener both born 1849, both marble polishers, both born in St Lukes both living in Shoreditch both married to Jane's who are the same age, both have same kids, who are the same age. Huh? Is this the same person? Help, please?