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well all I can say is that's it been like trying to get blood out of a stone - I shall look for Lord Lucan instead - I think I'll have more of a chance with him

and now I know there is more than one thread I feel quite er - how shall I put it - evil!!!

hi dea can we carry this on later as i was surpose to be out about 1 hour ago and i really do appreciate all your time and help you are giving me

hi thanks for all your help your last thread has totally lost me im so confussed whos who sorry you must be

Christine, you keep saying 'I remember this - I remember that' - 'the family said' etc.. You now say that you knew about the Irish connection and that Mary's grandmother was called McCann!!

Can you please give us ALL the information you have so that we don't waste our time finding what you already know.

Mark the information as 'fact' or 'family belief' so that we can explore it and either confirm or discount.

What else do you know before we continue please?

Dea x

Christine

You have about 5/6 other threads on this family. It's a complete waste of time, people looking over and over for the same info

Ginny

PS thanks Dea x

On 1911 Mary is living with James + Elizabeth Dodd + family - she is marked as niece:

DODD, James Head Married M 40 1871 Plasters Labourer Carlisle Cumberland
DODD, Elizabeth Wife Married F 38 1873 Carlisle Cumberland
WARD, Mary Daughter Single F 16 1895 Spinner In Factory Carlisle Cumberland
WARD, Alice Daughter F 11 1900 Carlisle Cumberland
WARD, Irving Son M 12 1899 Carlisle Cumberland
WARD, Joseph Son M 8 1903 Gateshead
WARD, David Son M 6 1905 Carlisle Cumberland
WARD, Elizabeth Daughter F 2 1909 Carlisle Cumberland
WARD, Mary Niece Single F 16 1895 Carpet Weaver Carlisle Cumberland


5 Stordy's Square King Street Carlisle County:
Cumberland

married 1 year - no children.

Marriage:

**DODD James Carlisle.10b 938 3 1910
FAULDER Jane H Carlisle.10b 938 3 1910
SMITH George Carlisle.10b 938 3 1910
**WARD Elizabeth Carlisle.10b 938 3 1910
.................................

1901 shows Elizabeth was born McCann:

1901 England Census
about Alice Ward
Name: Alice Ward
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relation: Grandchild
Gender: Female
Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Rickergate
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Registration district: Carlisle
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 139
Household Members: Name Age
Bridgett M Cann 56 b Ireland wid. should be McCann !!!
**Lizzie Ward 26 b Scotland daught. mar.
Mary E M Cann 19 daugh. single
Sarah L Cann 8 grandchild
Mary Ward 6 "
Alice Ward 1 "

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4867; Folio: 87; Page: 22.
..............................

Marriages Sep 1894 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ballard James Carlisle 10b 780
**McCann Elizabeth Carlisle 10b 780
Robinson Margaret Carlisle 10b 780
**Ward Joseph Carlisle 10b 780

Dea x

hi it would be great if you can find any thing on james ward born about 1870s in birmingham as it might have been hes father that had been lytollis thanks

thanks for all your help i guess the family have it wrong about the name lytollis but you are right about the irish connectshions as mary wards grandmothers name we think was mcann from ireland

I believe this is the Mary you found on 1901:

1901 England Census
about Mary Ward
Name: Mary Ward
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Female
Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Botchergate
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address: 3 Pattinsons (Parkinsons??) Court.


Registration district: Carlisle
Sub-registration district: St Cuthbert
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 136
Household Members: Name Age
James Ward 38 Gen Labr. b Birmingham
Margaret Ward 40
Mary Ward 6
John Dodd 15 son

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4864; Folio: 72; Page: 22.

................

Note that there is a 'son' John Dodd.

This is because his mother Margaret Dodd had him before she married:

1891 England Census
about John Dodd
Name: John Dodd
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England


Registration district: Carlisle
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Dodd 31 single
John Dodd 5


Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4288; Folio 7; Page 8; GSU roll: 6099398.

...............

She them married in 1892 and became a 'Ward'

Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dixon Joseph Carlisle 10b 800
***Dodd Margaret Carlisle 10b 800
Minshaw Kate Carlisle 10b 800
***Ward Alfred James Carlisle 10b 800

........................

Margaret on 1881

1881 England Census
about Margaret Dodd
Name: Margaret Dodd
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Patrick
Mother's Name: Catherine
Gender: Female
Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Caldewgate
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address: 4 Denton Place Crescent
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Cotton Weaver

Registration district: Carlisle
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Patrick Dodd 45 Travelling Draper b Sligo, Ireland
Catherine Dodd 43 b ??? Ireland.
Margaret Dodd 21
John Dodd 19
Michael Dodd 17
Mary Dodd 14
James Dodd 12
Catherine Dodd 5

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5158; Folio: 91; Page: 8; GSU roll: 1342245.

Dea x

Hang on.........

If this is the Mary Ward you asked about on your other thread, and the same one that you found on 1901 census, then her father is not the one you are asking about now !

Let me look through my notes and come back to you.

Dea x

hi here we go marion gardiner married john forster they where my grand parents i know that is a true fact marion gardiner parents were richard gardiner born 1893 but was killed in the war he married mary ward born about 1895 they lived in carlise. It is the parents of mary ward im trying to find and it is her dad that had changed hes name from lytollis to ward when he became a british national hope this is some help look forward from hearing from you

You're going to hate me for this..........

Start with what you know as a fact, like your mom's birth certificate, marriage etc. Next you can then use the mother and father's name to work backwards

It seems you are trying to find info that is too far in the past with no real evidence

If you need help we will willingly do so, but you must have certificates to verify the info as you work back

Hope this helps
Ginny
x

hi all my mum remembers is that she was told that her grandfather was called ward but that is because he became a british national and before he was called litollis or lytollis

OK. So can I ask where you got the name 'litollis' from?

Ginny
x

hi sorry i dont know if he was in carlise in the 1850 it was just guess work from my mum

Thanks Christine. What makes you say he was in Carlise in the 1850's?

Ginny
x

hi sorry just remembered her maiden name might have been dodd

all i have is that hes wife was from carlise and she might have been called elizabeth i dont know if that was her first or second name thanks

The name you have is most likely spelt 'Lytollis'. How do you know he was in Carlise in the 1850's?

Do you have his first name/age or parents....in fact anything else that might help

Heres what looks to be the marriage for his daughter


Marriages Mar 1914 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gardiner Richard Ward Carlisle 10b 875

thanks but how can i find if ward had changed hes name