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Thanks Dea,

I think like Maria Liggins, i have found another anomoly!!

Typical, these rellies are London based and i can find nothing on the London Parish Records online!!!

Can only happen to me


T x

I think this will be your Ethel Warby born in Ware marriage.

Marriages Sep 1919 (>99%)
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Warby Ethel Brand Ware 3a 1893

There are only 4 Ethel Warby births between 1880 and 1902 anywhere in the country and one birth and marriage has been accounted for I think,the one in ware,so 3 more to rule out.

Births Mar 1882
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Warby Ethel Louise Brentford 3a 62

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Births Jun 1885
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Warby Ethel May Islington 1b 355

Births Dec 1899
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Warby Ethel Maud Islington 1b 259

Check this space for edits .....

Ethel Louise.

Marriages Sep 1913 (>99%)
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Warby Ethel L McKerchar Pancras 1b 49


There do not appear to be any Ethel M marriages other than the one you have in 1911,and of course Ethel Marshall Warby was born as Ethel Marshall Currell,

I only thing I find strange is that children didnt happen for 7 yrs after that marriage if it is the correct one,but maybe they didnt want any straight away.

At the marriage in 1911 John Payne is described as a gardener -or have I misread your opening post, Tracey? No reason why he shuld not have gone on to become a platelayer in 1920 is there?

Hey Gillian

Sorry not long finished work!

Yes the marriage in 1911 states Gardener, but the birth cert in 1920 states Plate Layer.

What i am unsure of if the marriage is the same couple having the child.

Why marry in 1911 and not have children til 1918/1920.. . War maybe?

Maybe he came out of WW1 with a different trade?

Hmmmm, maybe i'm now thinking out loud, have to go check WW1 records now.



Tracey x

Viv

you said....

"There do not appear to be any Ethel M marriages other than the one you have in 1911,and of course Ethel Marshall Warby was born as Ethel Marshall Currell"

Ethel's father was John Warby, where have you got the Currell name from?

The Ethel that is Ivy's mother doesn't have a middle name, i'm fairly certain she was born that way...but then i know very little currently and i hate it!!


Tracey x

Read last message ,bottom of page one where I have posted census from 1901 and 1891 following Ethel Warby on 1911 back....

??... LOL


T xx

So the light has come on ???

>>:;))

Sorry i hadn't looked back at your edits lol...

Hmmm does look interesting. Do we have a marriage of a Currell to a Warby to match the parents, i take it it's her mother thats married John?


Tracey x

Mother SarahCurrell married stepfather John Warby yes..find a marriage ,nope.

We still need to attach the birth to the marriage.

T x

Well I really dont see any other.

Maybe they were never legally married....

Shame you have no idea when or where john and Ethel died cos with the name Payne being so "common"there are trillions to choose from !

I know!

Sadly the family is so fragmented. When Ivy came back from the war with her husband they settled in London. They had 4 daughters, my mother was the only one who survived. When my mother was 11 her father decided London was not a good place to bring up a child and moved them lock stock and barrell to the West midlands......

..... sadly he dropped them off with their suitcases to 'park the car' that was the last time my mother and my nan saw him! ...he'd left them and hadn't the balls to say anything.

History is repetative as i do not speak with my mother either, infact i have not communicated with her for more than 5 years. It's a sorry tale of woe, indeed i am aware of the fact that Ivy did not have a happy childhood either....as my mother would always comment constantly how our relationship was just like her and her mother's and the mother before..

It seems a pattern the females are unable to break...until me!


T x

The B***d could have left them in London, at least they had friends there.
What a stinker !

My relationship with mother is not the most wonderful,but we do talk about many things,as long as its not my boys or the lack of love between her and I.
But Im 150 miles away,so I dont have to make an effort too often...

Hahaha, i live about 30 miles away from my mother, thats not far enough, yet too far also....

Well the weird thing is, he stayed int he same town and aparently struggled with his decision all his life! Didn't stop him from taking up with another woman, and living in the same town all his life!! The shock when he died and a tracing company found my mother....Unbelievable.

I was told at the time he had been caught on many occasions sitting outside our house watching myself and my sister playing in the garden....

It's a shame he carried on being a coward and didn't step forward....

The ironic thing is, he was a decorated major at El alamain in Egypt!!!

Crazy....xx

OK,

I know Payne is a common name.... but this one is a bit weird!

Births Sep 1918
>>>Payne Arthur E Atkinson Pancras 1b 142
Payne Ellen Payne Pancras 1b 52
Payne Kenneth E J _ Benson Pancras 1b 161
>>>Payne Reginald D Warby Pancras 1b 142

Tracey x

I doubt I have any chance of getting up to speed here ...

"Yes the marriage in 1911 states Gardener, but the birth cert in 1920 states Plate Layer."

marriage
17th April 1911, John Payne 29 Batch, Gardener, Hatfield, Father Jabez Payne Gardener.
married Ethel Marshall Warby 28, Spin, no occ, Hatfield, Father John Warby Gardener.

birth
Born 17 May 1920, 12 Spencer Road, St Pancras.
Mother Ethel Payne formerly Warby, father John Payne, Railway Platelayer.


Both fathers were gardeners, and we have "Jabey" there in 1911 being a gardener with his other adult son also being a gardener.

Isn't it possible that there was a family enterprise, and John was working temporarily in it at the time of the marriage? Laid off from railway job or such maybe? The family business would be a fallback possibly.

Tracey - re your two Payne births on the same page

A few months ago I thought I'd inadvertently been hugely brilliant and discovered a twin of someone we were looking at. Same surname, same page, same mother's surname (actually surname and mother's surname were the same in both cases).

Turned out two unmarried women with the same surname who had had children in the local workhouse around the same time had registered them on the same day!

Could be this marriage:

Marriages Mar 1915
Payne William G Atkinson Pancras 1b 135

Hey Janey

We're not really any further forward other than Viv managing to establish the whereabouts of the couple from the marriage on various census's.

It's very possible thats what he has done..... however what i am having a problem with is being certain the marriage and the births are the same couple.

Why 7 years before the birth of the first child? Ethel doesn't state a middle name (altho it's not essential she did) but i'd have liked it if she did!!

It's also possible John and Ethel lived in sin??


it's equally possible one or both have invented a child....or were even previously married!

Grrrr

Tracey x

Janey

I was trying to find a Payne/Atkinson marriage but FreeBMD kept Cr*pping out on me!!

So we can discount that one then..... just weird, i have enough curve balls without that too.

I'm still awaiting the marriage cert of Ivy & Ernest. not that i think it'll help me!

There is Reginald the brother, i think i'll order his cert now.... maybe that'll give me a variation on the facts i have now?


Tracey x