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I had a wonderful meal actually in a Cypriot restaurant. One of the owners is on genes and I met her for the first time last night.
That could be somewhere for your OH to bring you to AS.
Long cab ride though.
Surprisingly my head is not sore so you can stop shouting.

Daughter and her OH stayed overnight so I have been running round after 2 year old this morning.

Will start pondering over this last this afternoon then give you some answers.


Thanks every one.

Checked the Lancashire Parish records for Winders William 1869 and family. Found marriage you h ave and also same information for Ellen.

No similar information for any of the children (well not that makes any sense).


Do youhave a poor sore head?? Was it something you ate??

I can't go any further until I know if anything is on the right track.

I keep going back to the coal miner. Also found one who was a cart driver.

What we need is John Winders siblings. But then we need to find the correct John Winders before we can match his siblings in the census.

William Winders birth certificate would give us his father and mother would it not. It might also give us his mother's maiden name. If we know the mother it will be easier to chose the family in a census. It will also give us father's occupation.

Ladykira, whoo hoo, where are you???

Hey this is a reversal of the norm, me yelling for you!!

Come back LadyKira!!

Hope you had a nice Dinner!

Need some more info here please!

Dea Xxx

I found that one too AS but discounted it because the birth date was wrong !!

Dea x

I have found your John - Window Glass Cutter. 1881 Census.

But it does not make any sense. His dob is 1855. He is married to Ann. They are the only two in the house. He does not have a readable family name on the census. What I think has happened and this could be wrong, is that his name and occupation have been muddled.

John ? Window Glass Cutter

John Winders, Glass Cutter. Oh I love speculation.

Is Bolton anywhere near where William was born. I have a William Winder living with brother John in the 1881 census. Says they were born in Bolton Lancashire.

Sorry I need sleep.

This is William Winders aged 16 coal miner. His father John is also a coal miner according to the image. So this is the one which is not relevant.

Name: William Winders
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Eccleston, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Eccleston in Prescot
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: Kiln Houses
Occupation: Coal Miner

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: 14

John Winders 46
Elizabeth Winders 36
William Winders 16
Mary E. Winders 10
Elizabeth Winders 6
John Winders 3

OK AS
Work today and I am going out for dinner tonight.

You know I will be back.

.

The marriage between William Winders and Ellen Taylor is 8b 974 Prescott on the Free BDM. 3Q 1887

When you click on the "see others on page" they both come up.
Both are in the images.



There is this marriage index.

Name: Ellen Taylor
Year of Registration: 1887
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 951 (click to see others on page)

When you click on the page to see the others, there is no one except Ellen Taylor.

Jessie's birth

Name: Jessie Winders
Birth: Sep 1891 - Prescot, Lancashire

Possible deaths.

Name: Jessie Winders
Death: Prescot, Lancashire, England
Death: 1961


Name: Jessie Winders
Death: Worcester, Worcestershire, England
Death: 1963



Name: Jessie Winders
Death: Oldham, Lancashire, England
Death: 1935


Now marriages. There are no marriages for Jessie Winders before 1932. Well not with this lot anyway. There are three possibilities, however she is a bit old and it might not be her because the deaths show her as Jessie Winders.

Name: Jessie Winders
Spouse: Bold
Marriage: Jan-Feb-Mar 1932 - Prescot, Lancashire





Name: Jessie Winders
Spouse: Bradshaw
Marriage: Oct-Nov-Dec 1938 - Prescot, Lancashire



Name: Jessie Winders
Spouse: Farthing
Marriage: Oct-Nov-Dec 1957 - St Helens, Lancashire

Here is Jessie on the census 1901. The whole family have been mistranscribed as Windus. The correction has been placed on the transcription but there are no notes.

Name: Jessie Windus
[Jessie Winders]
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Female
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Name: Jessie Winders
Year of Registration: 1891
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 686 (click to see others on page)

Jessie daughter of William and Ellen.

Here are the Winders births for William around 1869. Yours is the first one LK. I have removed any whose name was not William Winders. I agree with the thought that the birth in Mar 1865 is the most probable.

However, all are correctly named and all could be the other William. Some we may delete because of the location.





Name: William Winders
Birth: Jan Feb Mar 1917 - Prescot, Lancashire



Name: William Winders
Birth: Jun 1866 - Bury, Greater Manchester, Lancashire



Name: William Winders
Birth: Jun 1872 - Preston, Lancashire


Name: William Winders
Birth: Mar 1865 - Prescot, Lancashire


Name: William Joseph Winders
Birth: Mar 1874 - Preston, Lancashire


Name: William Winders
Birth: Sep 1868 - Burton Upon Trent, Derbyshire, Staffordshire

Hi Stevie

That would be the correct marriage for Susan's William. she has the certificate. Ellen is another story because her father is Smith I think I sent her the correct family once but she has built a a tree around her that does not make sense, But for now I want to concentrate on the Winders side. I came up with the same family as you but that would make another Winders tree wrong so I would like something definite before I broach that one.

This is John & Elizabeth Winders in the 1891 census;

Name: John Winders
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Eccleston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: St Helens
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:.................52 Eccleston St
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Winders 50...........Head... b1841 St Helen.......Occupation Coal Miner
Elizabeth Winders 46 ...Wife.....b1845.....Eccleston
Annie Winders 24 ...........Daughter b 1867.. Eccleston. (Transcription error of surname.....should be Houghton & shown as married)
Elizabeth Winders 16.....Daughter b 1875 Eccleston
John Winders 13............Son.....b 1878.. Eccleston ....Occupation Splitter in Glasshouse.
Mary E Winders 3...........Grand daughter b 1888..St Helens....(I assume Annies daughter)

Here's the family in the 1871 census. Note discrepancy in age shown of both parents;

Name: John Winders
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Eccleston
Ecclesiastical parish: Eccleston
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 153.......Address Ecclestone Lane Ends, no house No shown.
Household Members: Name Age
John Winders 30.....
Elizabeth Winders 30.........b1841....Wife
William Winders 6..............b1865....Son....Scholar
Anna Winders 4...................b1867....Daughter
Elizabeth Winders 2............b1869....Daughter

In the 1871 & 81 censuses. There is no corresponding William with the 1890 to1911 birth yrs of 1868 to 1871 in St Helens area & father John.

But in there is for William, correct location & father showing him born c1865;

1881 Census

Name: William Winders
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Eccleston, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Eccleston in Prescot
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: Kiln Houses
Education:
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Winders 46.............b1835.......occupation Coal Miner
Elizabeth Winders 36......b1845... Wife
William Winders 16.........b1865.....Son...occupation Coal Miner
Mary E. Winders 10...........b1881....Daughter.......Scholar
Elizabeth Winders 6.........b1875.....Daughter......Scholar
John Winders 3.................b1878.....Son

All shown as born in Eccleston

This is the marriage registration, which corresponds to Ladykiras' marriage information;

Marriages Sep 1887
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BIBBY Robert Prescot 8b 974
Marsh Mary Ann Prescot 8b 974
Taylor Ellen Prescot 8b 974
WINDERS William Prescot 8b 974
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh dear
you have misunderstood.

I have my tree fully researched with certificates and census references.
I have John William Winders 1868 and know all about him.

My problem is that Susan is researching William Winders 1869.There are similar names in her family so she keeps on attaching my family to hers, She has got herself into such a muddle. She has given me access to her tree to amend it but a few months later it is all back. On speaking to other researchers I have found she has done the same thing. I think she is interested but has no research skills. She has given me permission to help her. I think she is probably related to me but at an earlier point. I have studied all the records I have available but I do not have Ancestry. I would like someone to have a look at them for me. Thankyou.