Find Ancestors

Thank you AS.

We still have lots of snow and ice here.
I suppose you are nice and warm where you are.

Have a great Christmas yourself.

Thank you LadyKira. I love when I wave my magic fairy wand and you appear when I most need your assistance. Don't know how you do it but I am really glad of your willingness to share your knowledge and your research expertise.

Wishing you and yours a wonderful Christmas and a peaceful and prosperous New Year.

I will leave you to to your Haggis then

Just to clarify
Heath Haggis (1) married Mary Neal in 1758 then
Heath Haggis (1) married Mary Eyres in 1775.

Heath Haggis (2) married Elizabeth Halbert in 1788
he was also the second child named Heath because the first one must have died.

Thanks Paul and LadyK. I spent quite a while doing my paper trail and have come to the same conclusions.

However, there is one clarification. If there was a Heath haggis christened in 1761 and another Heath Haggis christened in 1764, are we taking it that these were two children. The first one Heath1761 dying and the second Heath1764 marrying Mary Eyres in 1775 and then Elizabeth Halbart in 1788.

Yes I can go back to the other tree and member connect to the person and ask them for their source and information about Matthew Pemberton.

I found that Elizabeth Halbert entry yesterday and haven't had time to look at it. It is the only one which fits in with the correct area and was my choice. Goint to have a look at the other LDS thingy and see if that has any more entries about the family.

Edit. http://labs.familysearch.org/ that's the experimental website. It contains filmed indexed material which has not be placed on the IGI web site. In our case there are records for Susannah and William Haggis, but none for our lot.

Aunty,
the closest I could find for a birth of Elizabeth Halbart is -
IGI,
Elizabeth Halbert
dau of Samuel and Jemima
born 12 bapt 24 Nov 1768
Lying-in Hospital, Endell Street
Holborn London

If she was about 70 in 1841, then this is pretty good.

Thanks,
sounds like finding a dock worker on the Thames is like a needle in a hay stack!

SO. Heath Haggis married Mary Neal and had 5 children including Heath junior. Then he married Mary Eyres and had no children.

Heath Haggis junior married Elizabeth Halbart (William Pemberton witness) and died with one child Thos Heath Haggis. Thos Heath Haggis married Elizabeth Brandish and had Hannah/Anna Elizabeth, Eliza and a 3 day old deceased.
Sounds good to me.
Paul

Hi Paul

You have taken me to a point I was going to bring up. I also have shipwrights and related professions. There were of course docks all along the Thames and transport was quite good. Many of mine were also linked to Greenwich and Chatham. There are many records that are not on line yet but you could try Greenwich Maritime Museum and the museum at Chatham.

Sailors were required to make a will so that could be productive. I think the family has a strong link to seafaring linked profesions from what I have seen so far.

Hi Paul here -
my wife is related through the Death (pronounced Deeth) line. I've been corresponding with Aunty on and off.
Great breakthrough to find Heath (not James) Haggis. Can anyone tell me if the dockyards at Stepney were Royal Navy? I've traced a lot of family at the Sheerness, Kent dockyard which was Royal Navy. Occupations like Shipwright (the highest paid and educated), Caulker, Ropemaker, Painter, Joiner etc are all dockyard jobs. If they were in RN then there will be records of them in Admiralty Records throughout their career. If Heath Haggis' death cannot be found then he may have been in Royal Navy and died at sea during the Napoleonic Wars (1803-1815). Likewise the convict Thomas Haggis would also have been need for the war effort - if his sentence was served in War service from 1803 onwards.

So who is

ESTERFORD, Elizabeth F 70 1771 Middlesex?

Can you contact the tree owner to find their source of documentation?

Now you are in the middle of the mystery. I forget exactly how many times Matthew Pemberton appears in census and as a witness to events for these families. I will have to make a list. I know at least he was

Witness to the marriage between Thomas Heath Haggis and Eliza Brandish in 1814.

Witness at the marriage of Hannah Haggis and Edward Green in 1837.

You have him in the 1841 census with Edward, Hannah, hannah and Martha Green.

He married Elizabeth Haggis nee Halbart (widow of Heath) in 1804.

I have his death in 1849, but have also seen another Family tree with a Matthew Pemberton who dies in a Scandanavian country later than that.

WILLIAM PEMBERTON Pedigree
Male

Birth:
Christening: 16 JUN 1754 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM PEMBERTON Family
Mother: HANNAH






SAMUEL PEMBERTON Pedigree
Male

Birth:
Christening: 13 MAY 1760 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM PEMBERTON Family
Mother: HANNAH


MARY PEMBERTON Pedigree
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 27 MAR 1757 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England

Parents:
Father: WILLM. PEMBERTON Family
Mother: HANNA

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 12

Month: January

Year: 1766

Forename: Matthew

Othernames:

Surname: Pemberton

Fathers forenames: William

Fathers occupation: Shipwright

Mothers forenames: Hannah

Birth date:

Address: Poplar

Location of church: Stepney

Parish: St Dunstan

Church address: Stepney High Street

Entry No:

Source Ref: X024/016

Transcriber Note:

Original Note : 28 Days Old



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Record source: Docklands Ancestors

So do you have this one


1841 census - household transcription
Address: New Alley, St Anne Limehouse, Tower Hamlets
PEMBERTON, Mathew M 75 1766 Middlesex VIEW
ESTERFORD, Elizabeth F 70 1771 Middlesex VIEW
GREEN, Edward M 25 1816 Middlesex VIEW
GREEN, Hannah F 20 1821 Middlesex VIEW
GREEN, Hannah F 2 1839 Middlesex VIEW
GREEN, Martha F 0 (4 months) 1841 Middlesex

I think Heath and Mary are the parents of Heath and son Heath also marries twice.

Re the criminal offence. On the Ancestry image I think it says his transportation was commuted to serving in the Army ?? I know he married Elizabeth Brandish in 1814 when he was 25. I can only assume that this criminal record may be him and that he served in the Navy. From 16 years to 25 years is 9 years so his 7 years of punishment would have been completed.

Heath Haggis. I have him marrying Elizabeth Halbart in 1788. The name Elizabeth fits in with the mother of Thomas Heath Haggis as shown on his birth in 1789.

Elizabeth Halbart (Heath's wife) married Matthew Pemberton in 1804. Matthew Pemberton figures very largely as a witness in every marriage, etc, event for these families for many years.

I have been looking for Heath Haggis death because on Elizabeth Halbart/haggis marriage to MP it says she was a widow. Given your info about Heath Haggis marrying Mary Ayres in 1775. He must have married twice, once to Mary A, then to Elizabeth B. Then he died and Elizabeth B/H married Matthew P.

How on earth!!! Splutter, splutter!! How on earth did to managed to get those Docklands Parish Records to come up on one screen. Please, don't tell me you paid for them through the web site!!! I could only manage to get the one about Thomas Heath Haggis on one screen, and I had to pay for that. I gave up after about two hours of going through each parish register one at a time. Sometimes I found one name, other times nothing. became very frustrated with it.

You are very clever. Thank you for that. You do realize that this is all connected with the Carter/Kimberley family. The family now goes back Carter/Green/Haggis. Step by step I am managing to work back through the generations.

It is clever people like you who are making my job easier. I really appreciate your assistance and knowledge.

bit early yet but may be related and I would not want to lose it

from national archives

Image details

Description Will of Thomas Haggis, lately belonging to His Majesty's Ship Pearl and now belonging to His Majesty's Galley Frigate James of Bedford, Bedfordshire
Date 10 July 1679
Catalogue reference PROB 11/360
Dept Records of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury
Series Prerogative Court of Canterbury and related Probate Jurisdictions: Will Registers
Piece Name of Register: King Quire Numbers: 66 - 124
Image contains 1 will of many for the catalogue reference

THOMAS HAGGIS, JOHN WILD, Theft > theft from a specified place, 6th July 1803.


Reference Number: t18030706-57
Offence: Theft > theft from a specified place
Verdict: Guilty > theft under 40s; Not Guilty
Punishment: Transportation
Related Material: Associated Records
User Wiki: Corrections; Add Information
See original 575. THOMAS HAGGIS and JOHN WILD were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 26th of May , a coat, value 30s. a pair of breeches, value 15s. and a pair of stockings, value 3s. the property of Daniel Fitzpatrick ; and a silver watch, value 5l. the property of John Murray , in the dwelling-house of Daniel Fitzpatrick .

CATHARINE FITZPATRICK sworn. - I live in Wapping-street ; the prisoners lodged with me: On the 26th of May, Haggis came to me for the key of the door to get his victuals; I gave it him; I followed him home for the key, thinking he would not lock the door; I went in, and found some things that I left in a sea-chest upon the floor in the lower room; there was a silver watch in it belonging to Murray, and my husband's cloaths; I had seen them all safe in the morning, and some of the prisoners' cloaths were in my care along with them; I went to the chest, not suspecting any thing was gone, but on opening it missed the things.

MOSES MOSES sworn. - I am headborough of the parish of St. George; my back window looks out fronting the prosecutor's house. On Friday the 26th of May, I heard a noise, and heard the prosecutrix say, she had been robbed; I saw Wild come out of the door, and almost at the same time I saw the other prisoner's head out of the window up stairs; Wild walked away, and the prosecutrix pursued him; I went up stairs, and found Haggis hid in a closet; I brought him into the street, where I found Wild, who was taken; I asked them what they had done with the things; Haggis said, if I would go with them, he would produce them; he took me to the closet, and delivered me this bag and watch.(Produces them.)(The watch and cloaths identified.)

Haggis's defence. My landlord gave me liberty to try the cloaths, as I intended to buy them; I went home soon that day, and the chest was left open for the purpose of trying them on; in trying them, I found the watch in the pocket.


See original Wild's defence. I know nothing of it.

Haggis, GUILTY, aged 16,

Of stealing to the value of 39s.

Transported for seven years .

Wild, NOT GUILTY .

First Middlesex Jury, before the Lord Chief Baron