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I am struggling to fit Charles Budd with wife Mary Ann and daughtersMaria and Emma and son Charles into the picture. 1851 census.

I had assumed they were James David Budd's family. They are not. I have found a tree which has Charles Mary Ann etc etc in it and James does not rate a mention.

Going back over the other pages of data. Yes I'm still back on about page 6 or 7.

And I have taken this bit out of the previous pages:

1861 census - household transcription
Person: BUDD, James
Institution: Childrens Establishment, Stepney Union
BUDD, James M 8 1853 Scholar
Not Known VIEW

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RG number:
RG09 Piece:
289 Folio:
136 Page:
8

Registration District:
Stepney Sub District:
3 Limehouse EnumerationDistrict:
Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Anne's Limehouse

Civil Parish:
Limehouse Municipal Borough:
Address:
Limehouse County:
London, Middlesex


I did a google search on the name of the establishment. Am I correct in assuming it was a workhouse. Why would James Budd have been sent there. Do I assume that because his father worked on the docks/ships/navy he was sent there to school.

OK. I went took a look at the 1841 census from where you are looking. Took me a while to work it out. Bit thick I am.

The name Esterford belongs to the family above. The Esterford family starts on page 39 and continues over to page 40. Then about a third of the page down Matthew Pemberton's entry appears with Elizabeth "do" underneath. Martha and the Green family.

It is most definitely a transcription error. LK would you like to let them know. I have saved the original images to my desk top so if we need to look at them again I will have access to them.

I guess the transcription of the 1841 Census is wrong because the original does not mention Esterford. I also guess that Matthew did become the patriarch being the step father and oldest male. Sounds obvious but he may also have been one of those Alpha Males etc etc. His father William being an earlier witness shows some kind of family closeness - if not by marriage.

reposted for reference

1841 census - household transcription
Address: New Alley, St Anne Limehouse, Tower Hamlets
PEMBERTON, Mathew M 75 1766 Middlesex VIEW
ESTERFORD, Elizabeth F 70 1771 Middlesex VIEW
GREEN, Edward M 25 1816 Middlesex VIEW
GREEN, Hannah F 20 1821 Middlesex VIEW
GREEN, Hannah F 2 1839 Middlesex VIEW
GREEN, Martha F 0 (4 months) 1841 Middlesex

Hi Paul, I am interested in why he appears on so many BDM certificates relating to these families. Sort of like the family patriarch who had the responsibility of attending the important family occasions.

Re Elizabeth Esterford. I have a recollection of seeing her on a census image somewhere but not on the census transcript. Dunno, could be having a senior's moment. That is one lot of checking, as I said, I need to follow up. Soon as I can clear this work work off my agenda.

I promise I will never take holidays again!!

Hi LK, am I missing something?
I cannot find a reference to Esterford in the original 1841 Census image. Just Matthew Pemberton and Elizabeth ditto along with the Green family.

Aunty, when you wonder how Matthew Pemberton fits in. Do you mean before he married Elizabeth, the widow of Heath Haggis. I'd just guess that the Pembertons were family friends from way back and workmates if Wm Pemberton (father of Matthew) and Heath Haggis were both Shipwrights.

Hi auntie

Glad you are back safe.
I knew you was away but just a bit of fun.
It is freezing here.
Snow over whole country.

When I said I would be away I was serious. However I did anticipate I might have computer/internet access. That was not the case. If you wish to know why and how the story is on the Nut Lodge thread.

If you had told me about the Stepney East London records a few months ago I would have asked you to find me the marriage of Charles E Carter and Marianne Kimberley. Please don't, well at least don't waste your time. We know his wife Elizabeth Bassenger was alive in 1911 and I know his first lot of children with Marianne IE Kimberley, were registered in their mother's name only. So QED they were never married. However if you happen to find any children parented by CE Carter and Elizabeth A Carter nee Bassenger, just take note.

Thanks for the Pemberton information. He figures very largely in the lives of those families and I do need to find out why. Also have not sorted Elizabeth Esterford yet. Will need to go back and look at where she fits in.

Must go to bed now. Very tiring day. Catch you later.

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 29

Month: September

Year: 1751

Forename: Martha

Othernames:

Surname: Pemberton

Fathers forenames: William

Fathers occupation: Shipw.t

Mothers forenames: Hanna

Birth date:

Address: Poplar

Location of church: Stepney

Parish: St Dunstan

Church address: Stepney High Street

Entry No:

Source Ref: X024/016

Transcriber Note:

Original Note : 23 Days Old



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Record source: Docklands Ancestors

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 27

Month: March

Year: 1757

Forename: Mary

Othernames:

Surname: Pemberton

Fathers forenames: Will.m

Fathers occupation: Shipw.t

Mothers forenames: Hanna

Birth date:

Address: Poplar

Location of church: Stepney

Parish: St Dunstan

Church address: Stepney High Street

Entry No:

Source Ref: X024/016

Transcriber Note:

Original Note : 23 Days Old



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Record source: Docklands Ancestors

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 16

Month: June

Year: 1754

Forename: William

Othernames:

Surname: Pemberton

Fathers forenames: William

Fathers occupation: Shipw.t

Mothers forenames: Hannah

Birth date:

Address: Poplar

Location of church: Stepney

Parish: St Dunstan

Church address: Stepney High Street

Entry No:

Source Ref: X024/016

Transcriber Note:

Original Note : 28 Days Old



Record source: Docklands Ancestors

Data provider: Docklands Ancestors Ltd

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 13

Month: May

Year: 1760

Forename: Samuel

Othernames:

Surname: Pemberton

Fathers forenames: William

Fathers occupation: Shipwright

Mothers forenames: Hannah

Birth date:

Address: Poplar

Location of church: Stepney

Parish: St Dunstan

Church address: Stepney High Street

Entry No:

Source Ref: X024/016

Transcriber Note:

Original Note : 33 Days Old



Record source: Docklands Ancestors

that thought did not come to much.

MATTHEW PEMBERTON Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 12 JAN 1766 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM PEMBERTON Family
Mother: HANNAH



MARTHA PEMBERTON Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 29 SEP 1751 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England

Age at Christening: 1

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM PEMBERTON Family
Mother: HANNA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C055774


MARY PEMBERTON Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 27 MAR 1757 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLM. PEMBERTON Family
Mother: HANNA



WILLIAM PEMBERTON Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 16 JUN 1754 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM PEMBERTON Family
Mother: HANNAH


SAMUEL PEMBERTON Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 13 MAY 1760 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM PEMBERTON Family
Mother: HANNAH

1851 census - household transcription
Person: ESTERFORD, Sarah
Address: 54, Causeway, Saint Anne Limehouse, Tower Hamlets
ESTERFORD, William Head Married M 50 1801 Carpenter
Binsted
Essex VIEW
ESTERFORD, Mary Wife Married F 50 1801
Portsmouth
Hants VIEW
ESTERFORD, Sarah Daughter Unmarried F 23 1828 Straw Bonnet Maker
Kentish Down
Middlesex

1841 census - household transcription
Person: ESTERFORD, Mary Ann
Address: Three Colt Court Brunswick Cottage, St Anne Limehouse, Tower Hamlets

ESTERFORD, William M 40 1801 VIEW
ESTERFORD, Mary F 40 1801 VIEW
ESTERFORD, Mary Ann F 15 1826 Middlesex VIEW
ESTERFORD, Sarah F 13 1828 Middlesex

Note the address

Bear with me.

I wonder what role Elizabeth Esterford as in1841 census has to play.

So searching pther Esterfords to work out the link


Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 24

Month: 12

Year: 1786

Forename: Alice

Othernames:

Surname: Esterford

Fathers forenames: George

Fathers occupation: Labour'r

Mothers forenames: Jane

Birth date:

Address: Rat

Location of church: Stepney

Parish: St Dunstan

Church address: High Street

Entry No: 6464

Source Ref: X097/286
Record source: Docklands Ancestors

I seek her high I seek her low.
so elusive.

Sherlock, they have added lots of new records to Find my past today mainly from Stepney and East London. I am off tomorrow so will take a look.

I found reference to Thomas Haggis 7 year transportation being commuted to army service on the UK National Archives site.
ref HO 47/32/10
What is interesting is the reference to a petition for mercy from 10 people of Pentlow, Essex on behalf of Thomas Haggis alias Agges.

BUT Pentlow is the topmost central parish in Essex, 50 miles from London. So if this Thomas Haggis was born there (not in the IGI) then he is not our man.

Searching for Aunty Sherlock
Gone missing and I cannot find her anywhere.