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Duh. So was I, wasn't I?

Sometimes 3 hours' sleep isn't the best approach to take to trying to find. ;)

I'll peer at that tomorrow, I think!

Sorry, I was talking about William Starks.

Rose

I don't follow that, Rose. The Herbert Atkinson records I was looking at (the dental mechanic) start on page 2374 of the A-At-Atk set (43,710 total pages).

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1219&iid=miuk1914e_123736-00101
&fn=Herbert&ln=Atkinson&st=d&ssrc=&pid=157859

Whose records have that letter?

If you look on page 130424 of the service records there is a letter. Can't make it out too well, but there's something about " my wife gave the house up when I was in the Colonies" and then a bit more about her living with her parents.

Rose

Christine when you get the certificates please please come back and tell us! I'm sure that Janey, like me, would be pleased to continue with this search.

At least now you know what you want for Christmas! Time the GRO did gift vouchers for Christmas pressies!

well mum is convinced it's in my nan's papers but, it may also be with my auntie Hilda(mary's sister) so we'll check with her too.
We have got Edgar Atkinson's (dennis) number from his army days in the scots guard, he went to Cairo as part of his service. don't know if that'll do any good but i'll pop it on here too.
2695972

The one certificate you want *is* the Edgar D Atkinson birth certificate!

It's fun, all this guessing, and then finding out whether we're right or wrong -- but it's that certificate that is going to tell us, something at least. There's no way it's a maybe certificate, that one.

Any luck on finding the Atkinson-Marsden marriage cert? That would be a nice find. ;)

will hold off ordering the death certificate until after xmas, i can't afford to pay £9.00 for a maybe certificate, i'll wait, so if you all wish to take a break from searching please do.
Many thanks and kind regards,
Christine

wow! there's so much! thankyou for all your hard work, and i'll get the edgar certificate too, might have some info on who registered him.

Now ... Ethel Aaron and William Starks married in Pontefract.

We have an Ethel Aaron in Pontefract in 1911 in her parents' household.

AARON ETHEL 1887 24 Pontefract Yorkshire West Riding


Births Jun 1883
STARKS William Pontefract 9c 140

And in 1911 we also have:

STARKS WILLIAM 1884 27 Pontefract Yorkshire West Riding
living with
> STARKS ETHEL 1890 21
STARKS LOTTIE 1911 1 MONTH

Births Jun 1911
Starks Lottie Pontefract 9c 96


We seem to have two Ethel Aarons?

We might think they're the same one, and she was visiting home and double counted, but the ages are rather off.


I've found the miltary record for this William Starks, under the name William Starkes. The fourth page of the record at Ancestry gives the wife's name -- Ethel. I can't read what it says by "Christian names of children". ... Going off enhanced view, it seems to say Lottie, but don't know whether there's anything else. At discharge, intended address was Fisher Yard Holes, Nottingley. Served in India and S. Africa.

There is a note from him:
Please notice the reason my army form is late
my address is not Holes Knottingley
it is 14 West St Castleford &
told them my address in my last letter

In 1911, the occupants of 14 West St, Castleford, are Starks-s:
William Taylor 1863
Francis 1863 (probably Frances?)
9 children

Either Ethel and Lottie had moved in with William's parents (quite possible), or William was not returning to his wife. William, Ethel and Lottie were in Knottingley, Pontefract, at an address that included "Holes".

Lottie Starks married in 1938 in Pontefract reg dist.


There is only one Ethel Aaron in the 1901 census -- the one who is in the 1911 census with parents George and Elizabeth:

Name: Ethel Aaron
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: George Aaron
Mother's name: Elizabeth Aaron
Where born: Knottingley, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Knottingley

... and/or the one who is in the 1911 census with husband William Starks. ;)


Several people have trees at GR with Ethel Aaron, 1889, Knottingley. One of them also has Alice Aaron 1910 (birth reg 1909, aged 2 in the 1911 census in the same household as Ethel Aaron). They might be able to shed some light.

Dunno, rootgatherer ... wartime, separated couples ... women at home who had a child while husband was absent, but being married had to register the child as a child of the marriage ... It's always possible both parties in the Atkinson-Aaron couple weren't free to marry.

But yes, both children are in his military records. ;)


probably

Births Sep 1892
Brookes Lilian Sheffield 9c 580

Name: Lilian Atkinson
Birth Date: 29 Aug 1892
Death Registration Month/Year: 1970
Registration district: Leeds
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 2c
Page: 1180


Births Jun 1891
ATKINSON Herbert Leeds 9b 548
Atkinson Herbert Leeds 9b 588
(could be two births, or a corrected transcription, didn't check)

Name: Herbert Atkinson ?
Birth Date: 19 Apr 1891
Death Registration Month/Year: 1972
Registration district: Spen Valley
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 2d
Page: 1203


and the possible death from page 2:

Name: Ethel Starks
Death Registration Month/Year: 1947
Age at death (estimated): 56 = dob c1891
Registration district: Pontefract
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 2c
Page: 791


Bertram R Atkinson married 1940 Spen Valley.
There's a Dorothy M Atkinson marriage in Spen Valley as well, 1940.
That's where this Herbert Atkinson died ... so he does look less likely perhaps.

Janey, I don't think that Herbert is our man. Military records on Ancestry show his wife as Lilian Brookes and he has two children - Dorothy b. 1913 and Bertram b. 1918. Looking on Freebmd no children after Bertram.

1901

Name: Herbert Atkinson
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Lucy Atkinson
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street address: 12 Back Bedford ??


Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: West Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 81
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 46
Household Members: Name Age
Lucy Atkinson 37
James S Atkinson 16
Herbert Atkinson 10
Ethel P Atkinson 6 Months


1891

Name: Lucy Storr
[Lucy Atkinson]
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: John Storr
Mother's name: Mary A Storr
Gender: Female
Where born: Stamport, Northamptonshire, England

Civil Parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St Georges
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: West Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 78
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Storr 56
Mary A Storr 51
Lucy Storr 27
James S Atkinson 6
John W Storr 5
Jane E Atkinson 9

1891

Name: Lucy Storr
[Lucy Atkinson]
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: John Storr
Mother's name: Mary A Storr
Gender: Female
Where born: Stamport, Northamptonshire, England

Civil Parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St Georges
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: West Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 78
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Storr 56 Waiter Inn
Mary A Storr 51 Dressmaker
Lucy Storr 27
James S Atkinson 6
John W Storr 5
Jane E Atkinson 9

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1883 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATKINSON William Walker Leeds 9b 459
Storr Lucy Leeds 9b 459

Thank you Chris - wonder if that could be the Jewish connect?

1911 Census

MELLOR, Hiram Head Married M 50 1861 Assisting In The Business Sandal Yorks VIEW
MELLOR, Lucy Wife Married
6 years F 47 1864 Grocer And Confectioner Stamford Yorks VIEW
ATKINSON, James Seton Stepson Single M 26 1885 Locomotive Fireman Leeds VIEW
ATKINSON, Herbert Stepson Single M 19 1892 Apprentice Mechanical Dentistry Leeds VIEW
STORR, Mary Ann Mother-In-Law Widow F 78 1833 Housewife Hull VIEW

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
27039 Reference:
RG14PN27039 RG78PN1548B RD500 SD3 ED58 SN229

Registration District:
Leeds Sub District:
West Leeds Enumeration District:
58 Parish:
Leeds

Address:
19 Leighton Lane Leeds County:
Yorkshire (West riding)

Chris :)

I like the look of Herbert even better Janey! It is always possible that the man in question was known as Harry and the family just assumed that his Sunday name was Harold.

It would be great if someone would look at that 1911 census for us to get the address.

Who's got 1911 access?


rootgatherer asked about Ethel Aaron -- what it says for her marital status. (If we have the right person, that's her birth surname rather than her married surname, Starks as of 1910.)

Searching the 1911 for surname Atkinson with occupation "dental", there is:

ATKINSON HERBERT 1892 19 Leeds Yorkshire West Riding

He might be interesting to know the details of, too.

There is a dentist in 1911 who is a wee bit old, but just for the record:

ATKINSON HARRY CLIPSON 1871 40 Wandsworth London
living with
ATKINSON ARTHUR 1869 42 Wandsworth London

Hadn't married by 1911, from what I can tell.

Births Sep 1871
Atkinson Harry Clipson Kensington 1a 164

but he died in 1957 in Shoreditch.

The 1921 census will reveal much! ;)

Janey that looks a wee bit hopeful as I couldn't see that death for Ethel as Starks. The time scale would be reasonable too. I had a look at the 1911 census and couldn't find Ethel with William Starks so that made me wonder if they had split up and she had returned to her parent's home. I didn't see an obvious death for William between 1910 and 1911. This in turn made me consider the possibility that Ethel wasn't free to marry Mr. Atkinson.

I have also had a look at the 'phone diirectories on Ancestry in the hope that he being a dentist would be listed as such in the directory - but no luck so far. I will look some more later.

I'm thinking I'm right about the second marriage. There seems to be a birth to that couple registered in the usual way we see in certain circumstances. I will send you the info privately.

edit just to clarify -- that's the second marriage for Edgar D Atkinson. I sent Christine the birth info and urged her again to get the certificates! --

Edgar D Atkinson birth
Atkinson-Marsden marriage
Atkinson-Smith marriage