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in my tiredness the beginnings of the post whereby the family lore said freds father was dead in 1905/6 has been forgotten. If this is true and fred wasnt with mum could he have been in some institution or with relatives of other side- or was he just being babysat by a friend???

Rich

Hello Rich. Wait just a minute while I pat myself on the back for the 'Phersons' lol.

I think a subscription to FMP now includes the 1911 so Barbara isn't spending money directly but FMP is keeping an eye on how many searches she does so she is still being kind.

To find who is in a household with someone without paying you have to use the "living with" search. The problem with common names is that when you search for example for all Fullers living with Frank Fuller in West Ham you get people in more than one household because there is more than one Frank Fuller. So to be tricky without paying you have to try for example Frank Fuller living with Ernest Charles Fuller since there is only one of him to see which Frank Fuller it is. And then if it is the right Frank Fuller see who else is living with _them_.

Soooo the Frank Fuller living with Mabel Mary Fuller is the wrong one and the one with Ernest Charles Fuller is Frank William 1903.

Okay, he is living with a Samuel Fuller ... but so is Frank Burnal Fuller 1892! Some fiddling later with the names on the list of people living with a Frank Fuller ... Frank and Samuel are living with an Agnes. That seems to be the sum total of the household, Frank and

FULLER SAMUEL M 1871 40 West Ham Essex
FULLER AGNES F 1881 30 West Ham Essex

So I think he is not your boy.

Edit
_unless_ Frank was living with an uncle or something like. So we do need Barbara after all, lol.

Oh and yes I do think it is quite possible that your Fred/Frank made up his father's middle name to match his own when he married as that sort of thing was quite common. The other possibility is that he made up his father altogether, lol, since that was quite common too. But in this case we do seem to know that his mother was married before to Mr Fuller.

Hi Dee

The site says you can only buy pay as you go credits so no flat rate subs.

Barbara, you're not spending money on this are you?

Rich

Hi Rich,

I would hang fire with the 1911 census search.... Barbara looks like she as a subscription, so maybe able to do the look up for Frank in 1911.


Dee x

I dont know how you managed to find the info you did just using the free search query on the 1911 site and link them together?

I was contemplating whether the £25ish fee which would give access to a minimum of 7 pages would be worth it. If so which searches would be the best to do? Sorry I'm being dumb of late but I havent been well and the last x weeks have been hectic in both good and bad ways- my thinking is pretty cloudy at the mo. Partic after only a few hours sleep in 2 days (again!)

Rich

Hi Dee

With my bl**dy family and their name swapping I guess so! lol
Any idea who Francis/Frank was with in 1911?
I'll check later (just taking a break on here from a disaster Im trying to fix!)

Rich x

PS

George Charles McP was 22 in 1909. He was a carpenter residing at 35a Wingfield Rd W'stow. Harriett was at 3(?) Northbank Rd age 31 (close to the census age)

Aha: William Phillips was a witness- making things look even tidier.

However, the other witness was a Harriet Rose McPherson- just to add another Harriet into the mix!

The question of where young Frank was is? Did mum not want him until he was older, or did McP not want him around, or did his real father actually want him initially? the only thing the rellies know is that he told them he grew up with his mother and half brother George McP (who we think was younger and so poss after 1911)

Rich

Posts just crossed Rich.

Me again, just a quick query. I noticed that you also called Frederick.... Frank. Surely the shortened name for freerick is FRED??? So could Frederick have actually been Francis George Fuller??

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Francis George Fuller
Name: Francis George Fuller
Year of Registration: 1906
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: West Ham
County: Essex, Greater London
Volume: 4a
Page: 506




1911 census;

HOUSEHOLD FULLER FRANK M 1906 5 West Ham Essex





Dee x

Hi Dee, Bruce and Barbara

You dont know how grateful I am for your time and effort. Thanks again :)

The 1911 census for Frederic George M Fuller with parents George and Annie may be right as Freds father was William George Fuller - so he may not have liked his first name and used middle. I have now found out that Fred preferred to be called Frank but I couldnt find that making a difference on my meagre 1911 search skills.

However if he is the Fred Fuller 1905 Q2 W Ham 4a 258 birth then when the cert arrives that might help.

The quoted marriage still worries me. It is a William Henry W Fuller...no mention of George as his middle name. Do you think Frank might have guessed it (his middle name that is) as his father was deceased at the time of my grandparents marriage?

On a positive note the Phillips info looks very good doesn't it? Parent, offspring and occupation all together! :)

Regards Rich

Bruce......... what a brill find on the 1911!!!! Just a shame there's no son with her!!!

It looks like Joshua and Alice Phillips died before the 1911 census, so who was Fred with?

Rich, do you know your Grandfathers date of birth? maybe his middle name was added at his baptism?

Dee x

1911 for clarity:-


1911 census transcription details for: 9 East Avenue Walthamstow
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN9692 RG78PN514A RD188 SD10 ED18 SN246

Reg. District: West Ham Sub District: Walthamstow
Parish: Walthamstow Enum. District: 18
Address: 9 East Avenue Walthamstow
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
PHERSON, George M Head Married M 23 1888 Carpenter Walthamstow Essex
PHERSON, Harrietr M Wife Married F 33 1878 Dressmaker Rampton Cambs
PESCUD, Marie Boarder Widow F 40 1871 Daily Servant Dalston London
PHILLIPS, Alfred Boarder Single M 18 1893 Builder Labourer Walthamstow Essex
LEE, George Boarder M 71 1840 Old Age Pensioner Northampton Ntshire

Look who I found in 1911. I will go look for the rest of the household.

PHERSON HARRIETR M F 1878 33 West Ham Essex

I had searched for any name beginning with HARRIET (because of the one T two T question, not expecting HARRIETR, but it makes it easy to find people living with her, lol) born in Cambridgshire (as Dee's 1891 census shows) living in West Ham with George.

Pherson living with her:

PHERSON GEORGE M M 1888 23 West Ham Essex

These people are also living with them

LEE GEORGE M 1840 71 West Ham Essex
PESCUD MARIE F 1871 40 West Ham Essex
PHILLIPS ALFRED M 1893 18 West Ham Essex (Harriet's brother in 1901)

but that seems to be the sum total.

The Mc in their surname may have been written M' but in any event it has been transcribed as if their middle initial was M instead of it being McPherson or M'Pherson.



By the way Rich in the other thread you said 'However, the 1897 Edwards divorce and then a year later the marriage of a Will Henry Fuller to a Harriett Phillips is confusing.'

I think what I showed there is that the Edwards divorce has nothing to do with your people. It is coincidental that there was a wife Harriet and a corespondent William Fuller but that is all it is. She was Harriet Crouch and they lived in a completely different part of the country.

Yes indeed, Dee, that is the marriage I was looking at in the other thread, lol.

http://www.genesreunited.com.au/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1194184

I think that's the ticket, myself.

I was not having any luck finding them in the 1901 census though. I wonder whether William was off in the Boer War? There is a William Fuller listed in the Imperial Yeomanry at Kevin Asplin's site, but it is not a unique name.

The Harriett on the 1891 census with father Joshua, takes me to this marriage;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1898 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fuller William Henry W. Ham 4a 350
PHILLIPS Harriett W.Ham 4a 350
Purdy Jessie W.Ham 4a 350
Robinson George W. Ham 4a 350




Now I know this has been posted before......... Too many coincedences don't you think???


Dee xx

Rich,

just putting this here for now, it may be wrong and if sdo will delete it;

1901 England Census
about Joshua Phillips
Name: Joshua Phillips
Age: 49
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Alice
Gender: Male
Where born: Long Stanton, Cambridgeshire, England

Civil parish: Walthamstow
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Walthamstow
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Walthamstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 64
Household Members: Name Age
Joshua Phillips 49 Painter decorator
Alice Phillips 47
Emily Phillips 23
William Phillips 21
Nellie Phillips 18
Grace Phillips 16
Alfred Phillips 8
John Willmott 75
Ada Willmott 25


1891 England Census
about Harriett Phillips
Name: Harriett Phillips
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joshua
Mother's Name: Alice
Gender: Female
Where born: Cambridgeshire, England

Civil parish: Walthamstow
Ecclesiastical parish: St Gabriel
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:DRESS MAKERS APPRENTICE


Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Walthamstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Joshua Phillips 39
Alice Phillips 37
Harriett Phillips 15
Martha Phillips 13
William Phillips 11
Nellie Phillips 8
Grace Phillips 6


Dee x

Rich,

remember I did a 1911 free census check on possible for F G fuller born 1905, this was the West Ham one;

1911;

HOUSEHOLD FULLER FREDERIC GEORGE M 1906 5 West Ham Essex

Free search looks like other family with him;
HOUSEHOLD FULLER ANNIE CAROLINE F 1879 32 West Ham Essex
HOUSEHOLD FULLER GEORGE M 1874 37 West Ham Essex
HOUSEHOLD FULLER MURIEL ELSIE F 1908 3 West Ham Essex


If you also look at the other 2 I listed you will see the Wollwich F G Fuller with father Jessie.


I think finding the Mcpherson household in 1911 is the way to go....I can't see them. So the info needed from the marriage cert of Harriet to George is How old was George Mcpherson, what was his occupation and what address did he give?


Dee x

Just to make sure all the info is here:

George McP married Harriet Fuller 1909. She put herself downa s a widow. (from marriage cert)

Fred Fuller born Woolwich had a father Jesse, so not William George. I'll now have to get the Fred Fuller b West Ham cert after Xmas.

Merry Xmas all

Rich

Hi Bruce

I can edit the title?

Ok, I'll see what I can do.......

Cheers

Rich

Begging your pardon, Rich, but this is the thread in which all the information can be found. As you see in the other thread, I was asking questions that are answered here, &c. Nobody likes to do over what someone else has done.

You can of course easily use the Edit function in your first post to change the title of your thread.

And then you can just go on to answer in this thread the questions that it has raised!