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And this marriage;

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page

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Marriages Jun 1936 (>99%)
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>>>>>>>>>>>>Livermore Rosina M McPherson Essex S W 4a 801
>>>>>>>>>>>>McPherson George A Livermore Essex S.W. 4a 801
Peacock Ivy R Vincent Essex S.W. 4a 801
Vincent William R Peacock Essex S.W. 4a 801



Dee x

Vivienne I looked into that Albert Henry Fuller you put from 1911 (I think I put his birth details somewhere in this thread, lol) and this is his father in 1881:

Name: Frederick W. Fuller
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William (c1838 Norfolk)
Mother's Name: Emma (c1843 Upminster)
Gender: Male
Where born: Upminster, Essex, England

Civil parish: St George
County/Island: London

so he doesn't seem to be a grandson of Henry and Eleanor unfortunately.

Dee so that was the birth I identified in the other thread where I said


Is this a brother of your grandfather?

Births Mar 1912 (>99%)
McPherson George A mmn Phillips W.Ham 4a 838


and so this death was completely coincidental after all (even though there did not seem to be another birth to match)

Deaths Jun 1912 (>99%)
McPherson George A age 0 Chorlton 8c 778

So what is the baptism that you would like from Ancestry Bruce?
You say you dont have access?I do.

Hi Bruce,

Looks like the George McP family story of him dieing in WW2 was true, the info from CWGC ties in nicely.

Hya Viv, I've looked at the London baptisms and can't see one to fit for our Fred/Frank.

I wonder if Fred/Frank was registered under a differnet surname??

Dee x

I wonder whether looking for baptisms by mother's name Harriet (Harriett) Phillips sometime 1901-1910 (who knows??) might be an idea if that can be done in the baptisms index.

I don't know whether the baptisms show mother's surname. And of course we don't know whether Fred/Frank was baptised, lol.

I just tried christening records at Ancestry for

Fuller
born Walthamstow
1905 +/- 2 years

and this is in the results list

Name: Frederick George Fuller
Father: John Fuller
Birth: year
Baptism: date - location
Other: year

Is it interesting at all?

Ooh what about this one?

Name: William Henry Fuller
Mother: Harriet Emma Fuller
Father: William Henry Fuller
Birth: date - city, Middlesex

but our Harriet has no Emma

Births Mar 1876 (>99%)
Phillips Harriet Chesterton 3b 488
(her birthplace in census is Rampton which is in Chesterton district)

Not looking good Bruce;

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
about Frederick George Fuller
Name: Frederick George Fuller
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1903
Christening Date: 30 Aug 1903
Christening Place: Sevenoaks, Kent, England
Father's Name: John Fuller
Mother's Name: Jane



Dee x

Yes and there he is in Sevenoaks in 1911, father John and Jane ...

What I was thinking was that maybe Harriet would have registered him as Fuller since she was using that name as a widow but made up a father for the registration ...

What is a tiny bit interesting is that William Henry Fuller's sister Annie Eleanor Farrant who married in West Ham in 1907 had her daughter Elinor Farrant, who is with grandparents Henry and Eleanor Fuller in 1911, in Sevenoaks in 1908 ...

I would think that she would do that Bruce.... it would definately save face in those times.

I checked all the Christenings out for a Frederick or Frank/Francis, unfortunately they only go up to 1906 and nothing came up that may me sit up and pay more attention!!! I couldn'y even see one for Albert h who was born in 1899........ these Fullers certtainly like to cover their tracks!!!


Dee x

Theres all of you doing such fantastic research and me with my cold filled head and poor net connection (took me half hour to load one page!- whats that all about? This time of night it should work quicker even if the holidays have been full of extra net traffic) not being able to do much at all.

George McP 1912 certainly looks like our half brother both from your great reserach and family snippets.

I spoke to an old uncle for the first time ever yesterday. If his recollection is at all accurate I dont like Fred too much. Seems he was fond of using his fists and belt for discipline. On a positive note my elderly uncle seems a really nice chap :)


It seems Fred was a gatekeeper at Whipps Cross (?) hospital, in the TA opposite Spurs football ground and most importantly in the 7th Middlesex Regt. The story is he also was at Dunkerque- torpedoed in his boat, adrift at sea until rescued by a small boat. Given whats emerging about his nature I'll belive that when I have some hard evidence! lol

A letter found yesterday by an aunt suggests that Harrietts mum married Mr Phillips after her first husband Mr Lee died. So I need to check that out given that the precis of the letterdidnt make sense. She says her dad said he must have beena love child as she was about to marry her 3rd husband when he was born, suggesting aunt is getting Harriett and her mum confused. Certainly she confuses me!

Im just going back to read this sevenoaks connection as its very interesting...

Cheers all (you are wonderful :)

Happy New Year

Rich

Snippets I have collected:

Gt grandad was a mercenary in Zulu war. so poss WH Fuller or Freds real dad....

Nov 1906 has now come to light as the possible birthdate of Fred

Fred remarried (I have been looking for his wife Oona for ages until yesterday a second aunt said Oona was her nickname and Agnes her real name....first aunt hasn't quite understood need for good info! lol. They had a Sean/Shaun as well as other kids.

Fred wrote for early sci fi mags..Sands of Mars was apparently one story

Fred became a catholic before he died and lived in Leytonstone.

He died in the 80s

Which bits are true and which are not I cant tell you but this is all i have from the last few days of chatting to rellies

Hope you all had a great Xmas and nice to hear from you all again

Rich

Is the John (married to Jane) perhaps John A Fuller son of Henry and Eleanor? This would tie the Sevenoaks area to the family for two of the children. Have we seen a Fred/Frank staying with ANY of these children I wonder?

Bruce you say that Elinor was staying with grandparents in 1911 but the 1911 report on this thread says Henry, Eleanor (wife) Percy and Susan were there. Who else was in the household please?

Rich

The GRO records are when the birth was registered not when the birth occurred? If Freds birth in the letter is NOV 1906 then:

DEC 1906 W Ham Francis George Fuller 4a 506 (explains Frank?)

MAR 1907 Bethnal Green Frederick George Fuller 1c 142

JUN 1907 W Ham Frederick Fuller 4a 505

plus the Frederic George Fuller q2 1905 W Ham 4a 258 (cos thats the year originally said by family)

gives me four possibles. The DEC 1906 looks the most promising. What do you all think?

Rich

It looks like he might have been in the 1/7th Middlesex Regt. They were a TA machine gun unit (fits with Uncles recollection) and were at Dunkirk. Been looking for sites which list soldiers names but can only fidn lists of those that were killed.

Hi Rich,

Any ideas of when Fred/Frank remarried? Just thinking that if we could narrow it down to a timeframe and area we might also find the children??


Dee x

Hi Dee

No idea. Searched freebmd with no luck. Aunt says she recalls kids..Mary, Shaun/Sean, Billy and Douglas and there were 3 others.

Found a lady on here who is the daughter in law of Fred but hasnt had contact with family for ages...sound slike my aunts too..bit of a pattern perhaps???

What did you think of my cert choices for getting?

As always Dee thanks for your help (and everyone else too of course). I hope you are fine.

And happy New Year :)
Rich

You be going to drive yourself crazy and take us all with you Rich, lol!



DEC 1906 W Ham Francis George Fuller 4a 506 (explains Frank?)

MAR 1907 Bethnal Green Frederick George Fuller 1c 142

JUN 1907 W Ham Frederick Fuller 4a 505

plus the Frederic George Fuller q2 1905 W Ham 4a 258


I think if you go back through the thread studiously you will find that we have ruled out most if not all of them by way of the 1911. But if you think there are lingering questions by all means order up three or four! No, seriously, sometimes you do just have to do that. But do go through the thread carefully, maybe print it out and mark it up, so you don't empty your purse or puff up your hopes for nought.

PS you wanted refreshing on the Fuller household in 1911
page 4 of the thread


1911;

HOUSEHOLD FULLER HENRY M 1856 55 West Ham Essex (NEWSAGENT)
HOUSEHOLD FULLER ELEANOR F 1856 55 West Ham Essex
HOUSEHOLD FULLER SUSAN F 1885 26 West Ham Essex
HOUSEHOLD FULLER PERCIVAL GEORGE M 1887 24 West Ham Essex

FARRANT ELEANOR FLORANCE F 1909 2 West Ham Essex
is living with them; she is the daughter of

Marriages Jun 1907 (>99%)
FARRANT Richard W. Ham 4a 330
FULLER Annie Eleanor W.Ham 4a 330
(daughter of Henry and Eleanor)

lol Bruce ....I HAVE gone crazy. I cant keep track of these people. I reread the thread and I just think with my brain as it is at the moment I am as dozy as a sheep...glad you all might come and join me..its lonely in ga ga land lol.

At least my connection is now working OK and am safely holed up for the next three days..the snow here according to the locals is the worst for four decades, and in the north Of Alba thats saying something!

Hope you are OK

Happy New Year my friend

Rich