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Hi Derek
My mother is still fussing about her grandparents lineage. Is there any more we can do a to verify George Marsden as the one born to John Marsden and Elizabeth Singleton? Or do we just have to accept that we will never be sure as no marriage to Emma Storey. Have you eliminated all the George Marsdens born Derbyshire around that time..as to whether they married and lived in the North. I have tried this and think I have checked them all bu am not sure how many years births to cover.
Sorry to be a pest...sonya

Mmmmm things have got a bit hairy...........I'm not sure we're on the right track......

Problem is..MARY ANN GREGSON 1864 Overseal......daughter of James Gregson and Mary Ann Gregson......

I now have the full history of James Gregson 1814 Longford..from birth to death ...bricklayers labourer..wife Mary............. only the 1841.1851 and 1861 mention Mary Gregson..always at Longford and always mary..not Mary Ann......

Overseal Leicestershire PR's give MARY ANN GREGSON baptised 05.08.1866.daughter of James and Mary ANN...........

1871 James is a widower living with Charles, his son and their family..MARY ANN GREGSON 1866 Overseal is described as sister.......that would be to Charles ...it is the only assumption that makes to whole thing hang together....if "SISTER" does mean sister of Charles then we're still ok, and the whole story is intact....................

But what was Mary Ann doing being born in Overseal???.....maybe her mother was already ill..she was dead by 1871........but she had no leicestershire connections that i can find.......

Mary Gregson.wife of James Gregson (i.e.presumably Mary Ann Twigg) was baptised at Darley Abbey..actually in Derby. 14.04.1822 daughter of John twigg and Ann...........this conflicts with the Ancestry trees..who give different parents................but since the three censuses on which Mary gregson appears..show her coming from Darley........I think I have the correct baptism.....

would welcome your thoughts!!!!

Derek.

Susan..don't worry..it's not complicated at all....you are entirely right in what you have found and what you hope you have found......JAMES GREGSON born 1814..baptised 1815 as previously shown is the correct one......the mary ann twigg connection is sound as is that to the Rutlands.........snd i now have all the proof....I am in all truth too tired tonight to work it all out..but I will set it all out for you tomorrow.........Including CHARLES and MARY..who go way back.......
oh..and yes James was a bricklayer.....
Derek.

Hi Derek.......Wow this is getting so confusing. I did suspect that there could be 2 Gregson families with a James in Longford. I now need to determine if I have the correct JAMES. Bear with me.......I will fill you in with EVERYTHING that I know.

I’ll work backwards as its easier...........
MARY ANN GREGSON born about 1864 in Overseal/Ashbourne was the daughter of James Gregson (also known as GRIGSON) Her parents were James and Mary Ann Twigg married in Ashbourne 1839. You were able to confirm this for me earlier. MARY ANN was married to William Rutland, oh no do I hear you sigh.....not again!!

According to the marriage cert of MARY ANN and William Rutland, the couple were both living at Dirty Lane in 1884 when they wed at Biddulph. MARY’S father JAMES GRIGSON is shown as being a bricklayer and their wedding was witnessed by Charles Lowe and Martha Adams........Martha again.
MARY was aged 21 which indicates her birth about 1863 although I know this is not always accurate.....If I have the right MARY in 1871 she is living with her brother CHARLES (born abt 1849) and his wife Harriet.....
Also with them is JAMES GREGSON born 1814 and a SAMUEL GREGSON born about 1820........Census shows CHARLES as head of household and MARY as his sister. JAMES 1814 is listed as father.

I am assuming therefore, perhaps wrongly, that JAMES GREGSON / GRIGSON born 1814 is mine. Are there any further details of his ma and pa apart from CHARLES AND MARY.
I have the civil registration details for JAMES and MARY TWIGG........I guess ordering a marriage cert will confirm his fathers name one way or another.......Will get it done tonight!!!!

Dont worry too much about the connection between JAMES AND JOHN, its more curiosity but it would be wonderful to find a link as I have Gregsons in both my maternal and paternal trees.........both from the Longford area.

Looking forward to your expert advice :-D

Susan

Hello Susan..I'm having fun with these Gregsons..and if i was clever enough i could probably find a line back to JOHN son of JOHN baptised longford 15.09.1611..............don't you dare ask !!!!!

Ok taking it a bit at a time...there appear to be only two relevant JAMES GREGSONS:-
Look like James 1806 was the dodgy one..and James 1814 had full parentage..as follows.....
James 01.12.1806 son of Martha..illegitimate?????.

JAMES GREGSON 24.07.1814..son of Charles and Mary..it is this James that in 1881 is a widower aged 66 ..father of CHARLES..who married harriet below...... there is an earlier Charles and Mary with a John bapt 12.05.1770..with siblings..and:_
John 11.09.1792 son of Charles.... and JOHN GREGSON 08.09.1806 son of Charles......so we have a rather dubious connection between James 1804 and John 1806..because a baptism with mother's name only implies possible naughties..whereas a baptism with father's name only was common practice........Charles could have married Martha between 1804 and 1806..which would make James and John brothers...but don't hold your breath..

We go on to JOHN GREGSON baptised 03.01.1819 son of John and Maria Gregson.........this John is at Overseal in 1871 the father of Maria and Elizabeth.

For information only there are two parallel GREGSON families in the late 19th century at Longford......and very productive they were!!

SAMUEL and GRACE had the following children:-

John 24.09.1882
James 30.12.1883
Elizabeth 26.04.1885
Martha 28.11.1886
George 29.07.1888

CHARLES and HARRIET had the following children:- (Charles son of the 1815 James)

Agnes 1874 and Arthur before 1876
Ada 31.12.1871
Bertha 29.07.1877
Laura 28.12.1879
Harriet 30.03.1884
Charlotte 30.08.1885
Herbert 26.05.1889......

I'll leave you with that lot for now,,and try and find some links...

Later addition...........ok SAMUEL GREGSON 27.07.1856 son of John and Martha (John 1819 Longford..Martha 1821 Marsden Yorkshire.....can't find the marriage)....married GRACE BRIDGES 19.04.1882..children listed above..

The Charles an Harriet details are correct...Charles born 1849 longford son of James and Mary.

Derek.

Evening Derek, Hope you are well.

If you have a bit of spare time could you have a look in your “big books” or CD roms for some Gregsons for me? Thought I would spend some time on a different line instead of those rascal Rutlands.....

You recently gave me some help with the Gregsons in my tree.......well at least we determined that JAMES GREGSON born about 1815 may have been born on the wrong side of the blanket.... I don’t have any confirmed parents but you found a baptism for a JAMES GREGSON on 1 Dec 1806 at Longford, son of Martha ?
His birth date of 1815 may be wrong! James was later married to MARY ANN TWIGG in 1839 in Ashbourne

I have a question you may be able to help with... Please pretty please !!! ........

I have a JOHN GREGSON in the Bridges line of my tree. He was born about 1819, also in Longford, Derbyshire........he may have been married to a Martha ? (no surname or marriage date as information taken from an A******y tree and therefore not confirmed).... I believe their son SAMUEL GREGSON born about 1856 in Longford was married to GRACE BRIDGES, the daughter of John Bridges and Elizabeth Neal...(John originally from Norfolk and Elizabeth from Longford were married at Longford in 1848)

Can you tell me if JAMES GREGSON (1815) and JOHN GREGSON (1819) are in anyway related.........are they possibly brothers or half brothers..... Its a long shot but who knows.

Am counting on you Derek.....Sorry... no pressure really........ :-)
Susan :-)

Thanks Derek, I think that may have been the marriage I saw but did not enter it on the tree as I was not sure it was her. I have saved it for future evaluation.

Gooner..I can tell you that GEORGE ATHERLEY born Repton 1883 was in 1911 living at main street Barton under Needwood with his wife margaret (from warwickshire) and a child aged 2........

..and that by 1901 the children of francis and harriet included Thomas 1892..and mary 1900......

There is no marriage that I can find for Daisy till a possible in 1927..to someone called GEORGE GADD....that was in Dudley Staffs................

Derek.

:-D :-D :-D. You and me both Derek. I am assuming they are one and the same too.
Any sign of a spouse for said Daisey by the way ?

Well being an old fogey I am off to my bed now but will look in again tomorrow, Thanks for info , Nite nite,both x

would bet my genealogical reputation on the fact that George is Roger..or vice versa.......but then I am not quite perfect..and i am getting old..xx

Evening Derek, I have Daisy daughter of Francis and Harriet Allsop no Roger but other siblings,including George 1884 :-S.

Yes I know full well about Louisa Measham and Francis, just didnt want to mention the Meashams too much :-D :-D :-D :-D

Hee hee.........I suppose you know about LOUISA MEASHAM and her marriage to FRANCIS POXON at Repton 21.09.1867 ??? :-P

I see that the Thomas Atherley and Elizabeth family that i gave you moved from Winshill to repton..and one or two of th Baptisms appear in each place..Rosa for instance...........but there is Thomas Henry Atherley of the same parents at.Winshill 04.01.1874..I presume the earlier one died...and there is also an ARTHR at Winshill 1878..same parents.........

Also at Winshill we have two children of FRANCIS ATHERLEY and HARRIET.........Daisy Gertrude 02.08.1885 and Roger 06.04.1884

xxx

They do link into the Meashams via the Poxons ;-) :-D. With that parting shot I will wish you goodnight :-)

:-D :-D :-D. Nite nite Derek,sleep well

God..you sure this lot didn't marry into the Meashams?????? I'm going to bed, so you'll have to wait for more pearls of wisdom........ :-P <3

All that lot belong to me. Any details ie marriages and deaths would be gratefully received so that I can check the few details I have are correct

ok........let's try Newton Solney......

Thomas and Eliza ATHERLEY (some suggestion she might be Emma) had the following children:-

Francis 10.05.1862 died 12.05.1862
Francis Thomas 03.04.1863
Agnes and Rosa..both baptised 16.05.1869..doesn't make them twins.....
Matilda 24.11.1872

Derek....

Just been through my list. Associated place names are: Newton Solney,Burnstone,Derby,Burton on Trent,Buxton,Barton under Needwood and Winshill. I also have some from Nottingham

Hi Derek, thanks for these. The Repton lot are definately mine. Looking into the other places mentioned now and seeing if they tie in.

Gooner...had a quick shufti through my Archives.......if you have any reason to believe that any of your ATHERLEYS came from. or were associated with any of the following..let me know:-
Ilkeston, Winshill(Burton on trent).All Saints derby..St Werbergh's Derby Etwall..Newton Solney.Ockbrook ..Duffield. Little eaton or beighton.....

Another Repton Family was as follows: FRANCIS and ALICE ATHERLEY had the following children:

Henry 24.02.1822
Sarah 22.08.1824
Emma 29.10.1826
Thomas 22.02.1829
Eliza 24.03.1833
Eleanor 25.08.1839...........probably of no use to you..but if I sling enough rubbish at you..there just might be a little Diamond in there somewhere....

Derek.