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hello derek

thankyou :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

i hope your arms have shrunk to normal again

but yes i saw some info on ancestry which i was not sure about and no positive records

thankyou very much what would i do without your help as i find the gr tree to hard to use i only up date my tree on ancestry now :-(

hope you are keeping well

sally w <3

Good morning sally..further to my message of last evening.........have been having a look at your Family tree..which is headed by THOMAS DENLEY 1760-1817.............you will be delighted t know that I can now confirm that he was the son of JAMES Denley 30.03.1714 (son of Rhoda and James).and his wife Ann nee GIBBS whom he married 05.05.1750............so the direct line now appears as:-

James 1654 and Elizabeth....
James 1681 and Rhoda Belcher.. then Elizabeth Swinford..
James 1714 and Ann Gibbs.......to Thomas Denley 1760

Derek

Hello Sally..this really is stretching my long Derbyshire arms!!

I can't really help you with JAMES DENLEY 1654 married Elizabeth....but i can tell you the following about JAMES DENLEY 1681..

He appears to have been baptised 22.06.1681 at Kempsford son of James and Elizabeth.

He married RHODA BELCHER 25.05.1713 at Cirencester and had the following children:-

JAMES bap. 30.03.1714..married ANN GIBBS 05.05.1750 at Hazleton
Jane bap. 03.10.1715
Mary bap. 09.08.1716
Katherine bap. 26.10.1718
Joseph bap. 16.12.1720...died 22.01.1765
Elizabeth bap. 07.09.1723..died 18.11.1810
Rhoda bap. 13.03.1725
John bap. 03.04.1727
Vincent bap. 26.04.1730...died 04.11.1735

after all this childbirthing...Rhoda gave up the ghost 10.03.1733..and JAMES re-married..to ELIZABETH SWINFORD (b 1718) on 11.08.1734..and had a couple more children....
....there is some confusing and frankly ludicrous information on Ancestry trees..which i have ignored.........but it might be that JAMES 1681 was not born till 1689.............that's all i've got..hope it helps.

Derek.

hello derek

ii hope you may be able to help me wiyh your long arm ;-)

this is all i have found on my denley family

james denley b 1713 shipton glostershire married ann gibbs

his father james b1681 south cerney glostershire married rhoda bulcher

his farther james b1654 glostershire married elizabeth .........

can you confirm this or anything else as thease are my direct line

thankyou as all ways some whisky on its way to you :-D :-D :-D

from your number 1 fan
sally w <3 <3

Hello Jane..have answered your Pm.and given you info on how to find my Thread..hope it works.

derek.

Fraid not Joy..I don't have the Sudbury Records........till I go to Matlock Records Office

Derek

Thanks for that. Can you confirm that Elizabeth died in 1805, in Sudbury, Derbyshire?

Hello Joy..sorry you've not been well............Direct from the SHIRLEY PR's I can tell you the following:-

JOHN HUNTSWORTH of Somersall..married ELIZABETH THOMPSON at Shirley 14.12.1801..by Banns..witnesses Michael Goodall and Sarah Wright.

Assuming that this was Elizabeth's Parish then Elizabeth appears to have been the illegitimate daughter of Mary baptised Shirley 25.02.1781..she is the only candidate....

As often happened our swain John Huntsworth married her in her own parish..slung her on the back of his horse and carried her off to his own Parish to have his wicked way with her..

Somersall Herbert PR's have the following:

Thomas Huntsworth baptised there 11.09.1803
Charles Huntsworth baptised there 10.02.1805..both sons of John and Elizabeth.

There is no marriage for John and Elizabeth at Somersall Herbert..the only thing i can surmise is that the supposed entry on IGI is totally incorrect, or may be mixed up with a Banns entry???

Derek.

Hi Derek

Sorry for the delay in replying, been feeling a bit under the weather myself. Thanks for the Hickinbottom info. Hubby's side is certainly proving to be somewhat mysterious, so I'm going to lay off it for a while.

Going back to my own side, I wonder if you could confirm which of these marriages is right. Found them on IGI.


groom's name: John Huntsworth
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Elizabeth Thompson
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 15 Nov 1801
marriage place: Sommersall Herbert, Derbyshire, England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M01902-7
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1785840
reference number: it 22

groom's name: John Huntsworth
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Elizabeth Thompson
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 14 Dec 1801
marriage place: Shirley,Derby,England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M05894-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 428937
reference number:

Thanks Derek..........I also suspect that John Cashmore was most probably the father of Leah Ward born 1816..........I agree it seems unlikely that he would marry and raise another mans child unless he was a real good guy.......and we know the answer to that !! Perhaps he was in prison and couldn’t marry sooner.......he seems to have been in trouble several times before he left for VDL.

I have the marriage cert for Nathaniel Clamp and Leah but I believe there is an error on the cert. It gives Nathaniel's father as unknown and Leah's as John Smith. I really think they are the wrong way round.... My reason for thinking there is a mistake is below......

Nathaniels parentage is also vague. His mother was Susanna Clamp (1790 Grendon)...........she had a daughter out of wedlock named Kitty who was born 1806 and died 1810. She later gave birth to another child, Nathaniel in 1809.....court document cites Joseph Bird as the father. Sadly this Nathaniel also died in 1810.........
Susanna went on to have twins Susanna and Nathaniel in 1813........one twin Susanna died in 1813 and Nathaniel survived and went on to marry Leah in 1841 he died aged 76. Sadly his mother Susanna (1790) also died in 1813.........

Anyway..........the Warwickshire baptism for twins Nathaniel and Susanna in 1813 shows them as “base born” and the potential fathers name has been crossed out on the records. Deleted name is John Smith.

Like you I suspect that John would have stayed in Australia/Tasmania when he was pardoned and as you suggest raised another family but can find no concrete information to confirm this. There may have been a marriage to a Margaret McTavish sometime around 1852 but again have no concrete evidence to support this..........I did wonder if he changed his name to avoid his past catching up with him......if thats the case I may never find out what happened to him. :-S

Thank you for your continued help it is really appreciated

Susan :-)

Susan.....answering another question..........LEAH WARD baptised 30.06.1816 Smisby Leics...daughter of Elizabeth Ward.....must surely be the daughter also of John Cashmore..else why would he have married her so soon after?..it's not something the average guy wouod do!!

LEAH WARD married Nathaniel Clamp 1841 Ashby de la zouch District..but her daughter Leah Ward was born 1839. In this case you can surmise that nathaniel was the father.....but the gap is much longer so you'll never know for sure because nowhere is the father's name recorded.........unless its on the 1841 Marriage certificate......which in this case i doubt..There first child Elijah was born 1843..........By the way there is a John Cashmore died Oakthorpe 1847 aged 51........but my correspondent in Australia thinks he stayed there when pardoned 1846 and raised another family.......which is actually more likely.......

Derek.

Hi Derek, Please could try To find the Marriage of a Mary Shooter to Robert Henry Nevins 1884 Q1 Mansfield.
I'm wondering if its a bigamist marriage. So I would like to find out her father name etc.
This couple can't be found on the 1891 census.
Turn up on 1901 in Micklefield Yorkshire.

Further to my message yesterday........

Was unsure of the names of John and Elizabeth's children. I have taken my information from the 1841 census where Elizabeth is head of the household.........I expect due to husband John already in prison far far away......

The convict record for John at the time of his transportation in 1836 shows him married with 7 children BUT a later addition shows him married with 8 children, & wife Elizabeth in Oakthorpe........ Perhaps she was expecting number 8 when he left ??? Poor woman can only imagine what her life was like

I am pretty sure the 1841 census is for the correct family due to other occupants..... in the household is Leah (Lear) Ward, Elizabeths daughter born 1816 and her daughter also Leah but named as Ann on the census.
Other children Elizabeth aged 12, Luke aged 8, Sarah aged 4, Maria aged 1 and William aged 11 all Cashmore.

I have today received some information from somebody else researching the same family and she has suggested other children ..........an UNNAMED son 1817, MARY baptised 4 Sept 1818 at Ashby, HANNAH 23 June 1822 at Measham, ELIJAH we already know about, ELIZABETH 1828, no details of baptism but married 1853 Donisthorpe, MARY born 1831 no baptism details, and WILLIAM and LUKE who we already know about.

If you have the time and means would really appreciate it if you could check them out.....saying that I think we can safely assume that MARIA was not the child of Elizabeth and John

Derek, really appreciate the time and trouble you are taking to help..........this is a rotton un............and you thought our Gregsons were bad !!!!!! :-(

Susan

Good evening Derek........

Thank you for your message..........Will get back to you tomorrow

Regards
Susan

..so did I after i posted my message..............keep 'em coming!

Derek.

Blimey Derek my glasses must need cleaning. Thank you for your time. I feel there will be more questions on this family but I will look extra carefully first :-D :-D


Edit ... For reference I found them on 1891 under Bell not Ball

Dear Gooner..you're not looking hard enough!!.........he appears all the way through to, and including 1911..when he is widowed and a Grocery Stock keeper.

In April Quarter 1873..he married SARAH LEE in Liverpool..and spent the rest of his life in Toxteth Park Liverpool............the only Census I cannot find him on between 1851 and 1911 is 1891..but he'll be around somewhere!!.....

Derek.

Evening Derek, hoping you are well. Please don't faint when I mention Measham :-D :-D. This time the place not the dreaded family.

Can you find anything else about Walter Oscar Ball. All I have on him is born 1849 Measham to John Woodham Ball and Elizabeth Blockley. Got him on 1851/61/71 census then nothing

Many thanks

Hi. derek
I have now discovered that Austin Cupit's father could be Augustine/Austin Cupit who was marriad to Sarah Wright, in Shiland 1784. They also had a son Austin Cupit born 1791, wchich could fit.
I wondered if you have any way of proving this.
I don't know of any connection with Sutton in Ashfield.
Regards
Arthur

Hello Susan......some of your facts may be a little suspect.........I can find no Birth for Elizabeth or for Maria..daugters of Elizabeth Cashmore/Ward...........the thre children of the marriage between Elizabeth Ward and John Cashmore were as follows-
ELIJAH baptised 19.02.1826........William and Luke both baptised 09.02.1834...all at Stretton en-le-field Leicestershire.....

I suspect that William and Luke might have been born earlier and their baptism together as possible teenagers might have something to do with the impending conviction of their father......

I think ELI CASHMORE 1846 is one of several children of Elijah (1826) and Sarah.....for whom there is a complete census record from 1851 through to 1901........I cannot at this moment find an Eli for 1843/1844..but then there is always going to be some confusion between ELI and ELIJAH...

onwards and upwards!!

Derek.