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Thanks for that Derek, the only part that's wrong is where and where John Henry died.

John Henry actually died in 1878 in Warrington, Lancashire while working as a Drayman. I have his father's Will which names Rosamond Womack Holmes and Mary Elizabeth as his daughters.

John Henry had three sisters I descend from one of them, namely Mary Womack Holmes. The eldest, Harriett married a James Wilson and lived in Heaton Norris, Lancs/Cheshire. This is the man who was present at John Henry's death and the man who proved his father-in-law's will.

So the marriage I found on FreeBMD is the right one but Fanny was actually born LOWE? Jeeze they make it hard

Hello Joy....This particular search is really what this game is all about..extremely difficult and circuitous..and I love it!!It's taken a lot of checking and cross checking and results you may dispute..but I can assure you that finally I am 100% sure of my facts.

Here goes:-----..JOHN HENRY HOLMES was born in Chesterfield 1846..of a farming family.. indeed he became a farmer in his own right.

He married Fanny CLEWS in Littleover Derbyshire 26.02.1874..took me long time to work this one out..but...Fanny was daunghter of John Clews and mary Lowe..she was born before they were married and probably never forgot it..becasue her two children by John henry were indeed born in Brimington and the mother is FANNY LOWE...which is probably why you asked the question and couldn't find the marriage...now you know why you can't find the marriage.

The story becomes even more strange..but true...John Henry died in 1897..as a Chesterfield farmer ( If you don't know Brimington is in Chesterfield)..BUT!! in 1881 FANNY CLEWS LOWE HOLMES....(my joke)..is living in Brimington with her two daughter.s.ROSAMUND WOMACK HOLMES bapt. 11.03.1875..and MARY ELIZABETH HOLMES bapt.1876..and her new Husband JOSEPH HABERLEY IBBOTSON!!!..andin 1882 they have a child Emily Ibbotson........so something must have happened to split up the previous marriage.

Another interesting point..WOMACK..is a name which appears in the Holmes family a generation back when Mary Womack Holmes married in 1864 (her father was another john holmes.

So if you can sort this out without a migraine!! there is a thread going through that validates the whole thing

By the way FANNY CLEWS..mother LOWE came from Littleover.....

Let me know what you think

Derek.

Hi Derek

Looking for a marriage of John Henry Holmes to Fanny Lowe, possibly in Brimington between 1871 and 1881.

Thanks in anticipation.
Joy

Hi Derek, I will see what I can dig out. This is a tree that I started for my Aunt who unfortunately died a few weeks ago. My cousins wife said she would like it continued for her children so I am just starting to delve into it again now the funeral is done with. I will see what I can find and get back to you soon.

Hello LA.....nice to hear from you again; was beginning to think I'd been sacked by everyone!!....I don't have the main Chesterfield Records...just one or two around the place lke Staveley. Brimington,Dronfield.....no sign of a Crosby infestation......Its very difficult with only a surname.I don't suppose you have even one first name and approximate era?

Most of the Crosby's seem to be in Derby itself.....apat from one or two here and there who seemd to move in and out of the County..there is a MABEL CROSBY 1900 from Chesterfield..qaHANNAH CROSBY from Holymoorside Chesterfield 1818..who married a John Green and shot off to Macclesfield..and one or two from Bolsover..

see if you can give me a clue....

Derek

Hi Derek, a bit of a vague one for you here. No don't panic not for Repton LOL. Can you see if you can find any Crosby family in Chesterfield I have been told that is where they possibly came from by a relation so no exact details,bit of a long shot this one. Many thanks.

n

Hello Derek
Thankyou once again your information has saved me a lot of research, will you leave findings on thread please. I'am most grateful for all the searching you have done. Spruce

Hi Spruce.second instalment........ALBERT SUDBURY 13.09.1853 married EMMA GREGORY 31.10.1852 at Bonsall in 1873.

Here is a quick run down of her Pedigree..could go further but there are two alternatives with no indication which is right.

ROBERT GREGORY ..wife Isabell married 1724

son ROBERT GREGORY baptised 18.02.1726 married MARY WILDE
30.06.1752
son ROBERT GREGORY baptised 25.07.1762 married MARY WOOD baptised16.05.1773 on 24.10.1796

ROBERT GREGORY
their yongest son of eight baptised 28.05.1826 married ELIZA HOLMES baptised 29.08.1824 on 11.12.1849

Their daughter EMMA GREGORY baptised 31.10.1852 married Alfred Sudbury

Thechildren of Alfred and Emma were:-

KATE SUDBURY 1875-23.08.1899
MARY ELLEN SUDBURY 1876 who married JOHN HOLMES of WIRKSWORTH and had at least four children
WILLIAM 1878 who married a THERESA from Yorkshire and by 1911 had three chilkdren
ELLEN SUDBURY 1885
MYRTLE SUDBURY 1890-21.11.1895
ALFRED O SUDBURY 1893

These are all on the 1901 Census.

But I also have the 1911 Census!!

WILLIAM SUDBURY age33 Hosiery Factory hand
THERESA SUDBURY aged 28
and their children FRANCES CONSTANCE 1904
KATE GRACE 1907
NORAH MARY 1909

living at the Via Gellia Inn..owned and run by the HOLMES family

all the best

Derek

Hello Derek
I cannot thank you enough for the information you have found for me i really do apreciate your time you have given to my Sudburys. Thankyou once again.


Spruce

Hi Rose...this has taken longer than i expected, but very interesting. Depends how far you want to go back.....I have the Bonsall parish registers but the baptisms end at 1841.marriages at 1860 ...but the burials go on to 1900......but you will know by now that i am a crafty sod, and have other irons in the fire.and the right sort of deviousness for this lark..and the clue I got was a burial for Myrtle Sudbury 21.11.1895 aged 5.a sister of your William Sudbury...

I don't know what you already know, but i now have a pretty exhaustive record of family history surrounding William Sudbury 1873.
This will take more than one posting..but briefly the Sudbury family were from Ilkeston, and it was only by marrying a Bonsall girl in 1829 that they arrived in Bonsall.
A word of warning..there are lots of Sudbury's in Ilkeston..including more than one married couple with the same first names..in this case William and Mary..but your Sudbury's were Wesleyan Methodists.at least originally..all the other Sudbury's appear in the St.Marys Ilkeston Records (which I have) and for our purposes we can ignore them

WILLIAM SUDBURY born Ilkeston 05.03.1829 baptised 29.06.1837 married MARY PEARSON of Bonsall 18.01.1829 becasue of the plethora of William Sudbury's I had no idea which one was William's father until I noticed that HIS William was a Lace-maker......then i found the right Wesleyan link
.So at this stage here is the earliest I can go with accuracy:

WILLIAM SUDBURY born 1796 Ilkeston(Lace maker)..married HANNAH LONGDEN
1825..they had six children..Frances Selina Ann WILLIAM John and Alfred.

William 1829 was..like so many a FWK as in Framework Knitter..came to Bonsall and married MARY PEARSON(born 18.01.1829) on 11.05.1851

The pearsons were a huge family in bonsall and i have traced them back to1740....Mary's parents were John Pearson and Sarah (nee Gratton)

William and Mary had Eight children at Bonsall.all of which I have..including a William1862..but more importantly ALFRED SUDBURY baptised 13.09.1853

By the way Mary Pearson had five siblings..details for which i also have.

ALFRED SUDBURY 13.09.1853 married EMMA GREGORY in 1873 and was the father of, among others..your WILLIAM SUDBURY 1878..and Myrtle 1890-1895.

Will come back to you later..because i have the full Gregory story too..one of which was the sister of my GGG grandmother!!

I cannot give you baptisms for the later Sudbury's becasue they were born after my records..but i have traced them through Censuses.including 1911...more later.

Derek

Hello Sandra..i'm afraid that this has been a bit of a nightmare..sorry to keep you waiting........I think WILLIAM FARNSWORTH was born ar Greasley..not Trowell....the two are only a couple of miles apart.

This is the best i can do:-

Wiliam Farnsworth born Greasley 23.04.;1795..son of Samuel and Eliza (nee Blake) who married at Greasley 26.12.1792

I cannot find a marroage for William and Elizabeth without her maiden name

They appear to be living in Nottingham in 1841 with children as follows:-

John b 1827
Ann 1829
Anna 1836
William 1838
Joseph 1840

Ity is easy enough to trace these children forwards..but can't get any further back..because I don't have sufficient Nottinghamshire Records.

Sorry.

Derek.

Hello Derek Do you have anything on the Sudbury family from Bonsall in Derbyshire including William 1878c.
Thankyou

derek did you manage to find any more on the farnsworth family going back on william farnsworth born about 1795 in trowell married to elizabeth born cossal notts born about 1801 last time i wrote to you you said that you had not forgotten me you where gathering data thanka sandra

Please please...if you feel moved to answer this Thread..do so by clicking on the purple "Reply" button, not on my name. I have a large number of enquiries on my PM.....to which you are taken if you click on my name...and I don't want them there...please keep them on here by clicking on reply..writing your message and them clicking on "submit"

Many thanks

Derek.

Hi Derek

Thanks for the info.

She is my Great Grandmother and was as you say very well travelled through the houses of England.
The person you may well have contacted could be my cousin.
Mant of the Hickman side of the family worked in service throughout England.
Many thanks for the info on the Baptism, it is one of the missing dates for her.

Thanks for everything

BR


Pete

Hello again Pete..further to my message below:

William Hickman bapt. Colston Bassett Notts 23.03.1832 one of four children of Jonathan and Elizabeth (nee Dewey) who were married at Colston Bassett 17.07.1827

Jonathan may have come from Lincolnshire........

Derek

Hello Pete..I don't know how much you know of this much travelled lady..but I'll give you what I have found so far.

WILLIAM HICKMAN was certainly living (alone) at the address you mention in Derby in 1861

MARY ELIZABETH ANN HICKMAN was baptised at St.Werbergh's Derby 06.08.1863

I can tell you that William Hickman was born in Colston Bassett Notts in 1832..son of Jonathan and Elizabeth Hickman..one of four children.

I can't as yet find a marriage fro William and Elizabedth..who according to Census..was born in Spalding Lincs They appear to be a much travelled pair..William a Coachman and Elizabeth a Laundress.working in some splendid houses.........

1871they are resident servants at Rolleston Hall Derbys...Mary is 8 and they have a visitor Edith A Hickman aged 1 year....?????

In 1881 Mary Elizabeth is a servant at OLD PARK HOUSE lydney Gloucs as a pupil teacher for the family of a Curate....

1891 we find her in Ascot working in a massive household for the widow Diana Huddleston (nee Syas)...of Westminster London....I suspect a link to the real gentry here.!!!!

In 1901 she is married to the Grocer William Robins (b 1855). They have a son and two daughters
..and her father and mother are livin with them

I haqve found somebody on Ancestry.who has the whole famil includin a pic of William and Mary EA Robins..it is a private and withheld set of information..but I have contacted her on your behalf and she may agree to open up her tree.

All the `best

Derek.

Hi Derek

Nice to talk to you.

I was wondering if you have the baptism for Mary Elizabeth Ann Hickman.

Born on or around the 11 March 1863 at 19 Drewery Lane Derby.

Parents were William and Elizabeth.

BR


Pete

Hi Derek,glad to here the dog has recovered.