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Gosh you're quick!

Can you just have another look at the marriage date for Charles and Elizabeth? I have a copy of the register entry giving a date of ? November, 1737. If you're 1717 is right they waited 20 years before having their first child.

I had the baptisms of Joseph (Great x 5) and William (by default as he was on the same page of the register) but not the others or the deaths so thanks for that. Were the deaths in Radbourne as well? They must have snuck back in when the Guardians weren't looking

Mary Millington might we worth a look if you're at a loose end (as if!). She and Joseph Bacon married, according to my copy of the record, 21/8/1774, both were 'of this parish' ie Radbourne and the witnesses were John and William Millington.

My Capenhursts are much later than 1696, Matilda (Great x 2) was born in Leicester c1834 the daughter of Thomas C and Rosanett Gibson. She married Joseph Hague in Derby in 1856.

Talk to you soon

Pam

Hi Derek.
Have been struggling for years to find the death of Joseph Norman.
He was born 1816 in Weston on Trent & I suspect he died in Ashbourne.
His son Henry´s 1st marriage took place in Ashbourne in 1866 & was witnessed by Henry´s brother Joseph & Joseph´s fiancee Rebecca.Henry´s marriage cert shows his father as Joseph Norman, tailor no mention that he is deceased, but by 1871 Henry has re married & his mother Sarah is widowed & living with Henry & his 2nd wife in Newcastle on Tyne.
Can´t find Joseph´s death for love or money.
Marion

Hello Pam..long time no see..so nice to see my faithful folowers pop up from time to time!!........(That's the Guru speaking!)

Right......t's ELIZABETH TRUEMAN..the several Freeman entries are submitted entries and therefore suspect.....

Melbourne Parish Register has the following:

CHARLES BACON married ELIZABETH TRUEMAN 10.03.1717..not much other action..no children and Elizabeth was not baptised there..However..for some reason..forget why..probably sheer brilliamce!!..I looked at the Radbourne Parish Registers.and here we go!!!

Children of Charles and Elizabeth Bacon:-

Mary 12.11.1738
Charles 22.03.1740
Hannah 13.07.1746
Joseph 31.12.1746..married Mary Millington 21.05 1774
WILLIAM 05.01.1752

CHARLES BACON buried 04.04.1791 aged 75
ELIZABETH BACON widow of Charles buried 22.11.1796 aged 88

I'm still trying to find her birth.....but because she appears to be a little older than Charles..like aged 29 when she married him.......maybe,just maybe she was a Freeman and married a Trueman....before she married Charles...........a long shot of course, but that's how my mind works......

will let you know

Derek.
p.s. what's your interest in the Capenhursts?? was recently doing some work for someone who wanted to know about a James Lynford.who ,it turns out married a MARY CAPENHURST at Stapenhill in 1696!!

Hello Derek,

Thought it was about time that I had another look at the Derbyshire side of the family and as a trip to that part of the world is not on the cards for this year I turn yet again to my Derbyshire guru.

My great x 6 grandfather, Charles Bacon, (son of Charles) was baptized 19/3/1717 in Duffield but married in Melbourne November 1737. His wife was Elizabeth Trueman although IGI has her as Elizabeth Freeman. Having looked closely at the marriage entry and adding that to the fact that their first grandchild had the middle name Trueman I'm 99.9% convinced that she was Trueman.

Can you find anything out about my Elizabeth? I'd guess she was born about the same time as Charles. Melbourne seems to be the place as we found a record of her and Charles being returned there by the Poor Law Guardians although I can't find the note to give you the date. They had a child, William, in 1752 in Radbourne.

x

Hi Derek,

Yes this is the census info I have, how can Abel Holmes be a widower and at the same time be married, surely he would know the difference??? This is why it's so difficult to find Mary in the death records.

Kath

Hi Poodles........I think I've sorted this one out.

Have seen both the 1901 and 1911 Censuses, and can see why Mary Ann and Morgan are confused in 1901..easily done!!.....

Alfred Ratcliffe was born 1906..and the reason that he is called Ratcliffe and not Consterdine is that his parents Mary Ann and Alfred were not married until July/August/Sept 1907..marriage registered at Mansfield.

It's odd that they appear on two different pages of the Marriage register..but not unknown.

What is odd is that Alfred Ratcliffe was born 1906..and his parents married in 1907...he is still living at 93 Portland Road named Ratcliffe in 1911........with his grandmother.\sarah Ann

Can't quite work that one out..because I can find no trace of Mary Ann and Alfred Consterdine in 1911..another slight anomaly is that Sarah Ann Ratcliffe aged 49 is shown as married and not a widow..so her husband is also nowhere to be see in 1911.
and even so..the only real link between the two Alfred's is that marriage certificate and I haven't really proved anythin.
Still...I hope I have solved at least part of your conundrum.

Derek.

Hello Poodles..can't explain that..but I am`still working on your enquiry.trying to to get my head round the link between Ratcliffe and Consterdine.

Derek.

Kathleen..........Abel Holmes`was buried at Ashover 19.02.1865.having died at Alfreton.......... aged 80
In 1861 he is living at Alfreton with two lodgers,,,,,,,,but no wife...he is described as Married...not as a Widower.........which would be the case if Mary was dead..........odder and odder.....

Derek.

Hi Derek last night i sent you a message about my uncle Alfred Ratcliffe born 93,Portland Road Shirebrook Derbyshire this evening I switch on my computor to find your name on the top of my threads but I cannot find a message, Was there a message from you?? or have i got my computor in a knot again sorry for pestering I'm not to good at this
Regards Poodles
Ps Husband & myself are originally from Shirebrook Derbyshire but left over 40 years ago

Hi Derek last night i sent you a message about my uncle Alfred Ratcliffe born 93,Portland Road Shirebrook Derbyshire this evening I switch on my computor to find your name on the top of my threads but I cannot find a message, Was there a message from you?? or have i got my computor in a knot again sorry for pestering I'm not to good at this
Regards Poodles
Ps Husband & myself are originally from Shirebrook Derbyshire but left over 40 years ago

Hi Derek

Thank you very much for getting back to me, it's all very interesting, Yes my priority is the death record for Mary Holmes, at least we now know that the one in 1886 isn't mine so we are making progress a little bit. It's so puzzling that she's not on the census with Abel so it all points to her dying sometime before 1851, wouldn't you say?

I'll look forward to hearing from you.

All the best

Kathleen

Hi Kathleen..it's all a bit messy!..I can confirm the names and dates for the six possible siblings of Mary Hutchinson except that Georgina was born 14.04.1804..and baptised 05.08.1804........all children of James and Catherine.........all at Chesterfield..source St.Mary's Parish Records..

However the marriage of James Hutchinson is entered as being to KITTAR PORTER 1787 Elvaston.......and Elvaston is miles away South West of Derby......quite a long way to end up in Chesterfield........

another thing..Mary Hutchinson 16.08.1789 Chesterfield is in fact an EXTRACTED record not submitted..and therefore carries a bit more weight (Thanks Chrissie.....)..but she is the daughter of JAS.......the only way this can work is to make an assumption........where only the father is shown it is often the first child and often means that he was not married.......maybe I'm being a bit fussy here, because Mary could well be the eldest of the seven children..BUT..what of the marriage of James Hutchinson to \Catherine at Brampton Chesterfield 1801???..
Being a submitted record I am suspicious of it,but if correct, COULD mean the last child Georgina was not related to the others....

It's always difficult going back into the 18th Century.......I'll look at the Chesterfield Parishes next time I go to Matlock.....so if your priority is the death of Mary Holmes..then I'd concentrate on that.

By the way..the husband of the Mary Holmes who died Ashover 1886 was called George(deceased)........she was not the widow of Abel Holmes.

Derek.

Hi Derek I have sent you a message about my family in Shirebrook Derbyshire
i sent it on Send a Message but think it should have been sent on post hope you recieved first message Sorry everyone for causing havac i will get it right one day Hopefully regards Poodles

Hi Derek,

When you get chance please can you take a look at my request on page 58.

I hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread but I have done a little looking up for Kathleen with regard to her Mary Hutchinson/Holmes. There are details of Probate for the Mary Holmes who died 6/3/1886 at Ashover. The will of Mary Holmes, widow, was proved at Derby by Henry Ellse of Clay Cross in the said County, Coal Agent the surviving executor.

I will send Kathleen a PM advising her of the above, maybe the name Henry Ellse may mean something to her.

There is also an EXTRACTED baptism record for Mary Hutchinson on 16 Aug 1789 at Chesterfield, father is Jas.

Thank you for continuing to help us all on here.

Chrissie

Hi Derek,

Thanks for replying, like you I've been thinking that the date for Mary's birth is wrong, but I've also got that she had the following siblings, perhaps you can confirm if this info is correct. My cousin in Oz supplied it and he's not sure where he got it from.
James c 11/9/1791 Chesterfield
Valentine c 6/4/1794 " "
Peggy c 1/5/1796 St. Mary's & All Saints church, Chesterfield
Susannah c 27/5/1798 Chesterfield
Elizabeth c 6/9/1801 St. Mary's, Chesterfield
Georgina c 5/5/1804 Chesterfield

He's got James's occ. Blacksmith and living in Brampton and marrying Catherine Porter in 1787 in Elvaston, can this be right?

Would love to solve the mystery of Mary so appreciate any help you can give.

Regards
Kathleen

Hello Kathleen..I have been going back ti basics with this one, and not really getting very far.
I have the Brampton Parish records.and only one Hutchinson appears anywhere in them 1658-1900..so Mary was not Baptised there...

IGI give SUBMITTED record for MARY HUTCHINSON daughter of JAS HUTCHINSON baptised 16.08.1789......which makes the age of 45 shown in 1841 as dubious.........particularly as the only records anywhere i can find for a marriage of a James Hutchinson to a Catherine..is in 1800/01..another SUBMITTED record on IGI..which would,if acceptable make the burial of Mary \Holmes at Ashover in March 1886 a little more likely....unless James and catherine married when Mary Hutchinson was 14?????
I can confirm everything you say about ABEL HOLMES from the Ashover Parish records, including an exact date for his marriage to MARY TATTERSALL....22.02.1847........

I'll keep at it........my thinking is perhaps your birthdate for Mary Hutchinson is way out........without upsetting you hopefully!!

Derek.

Hi Derek,

Thanks for replying, yes I know that there's a problem with finding Mary Holmes's death, I thought the address of Newbold St. Chesterfield would be helpful. I'm struggling altogether with this one as she's a real mystery.
The Mary Holmes I'm after was born Mary Hutchinson in Brampton in abt 1789 daughter of James & Catherine, although on the 41 census her age is given as 45, at that time she was living in Nottingham with her son Robert Tattersill, spelt with an i. She married a George Tattersall, spelt with an a on 10/6/1821 in Dronfield, I've got him as being bap. 25/12/1793 in Chesterfield and who I think must have died before 1841 but as yet I've been unable to find his death record. All the evidence points to her marrying Abel Holmes in 1847 in Ashover but I've not been able to find her on any census living with Abel Holmes so the Mary Holmes on the 51 census living in Chesterfield looks to be about correct for her age and being born in Brampton.
Abel Holmes died 19/2/1865 in Ashover, his first wife Elizabeth died 1/9/1846 also in Ashover. There's a Mary Holmes buried 10/3/1886 in Ashover aged 79 but I don't think it's the one I'm after as the age is way out.
You have looked for the Tattersalls before for me and I've posted other requests for info about these people but still can't find her or George Tattersall's death record so if you could help I'd really appreciate it.

I think I've given you all the info that I have so hope this helps.

Regards

Kath

Hello Derek,
We must have crossed on the Scottish holiday as I was on my way as you returned! Luckier with the weather as I had sunshine all week.

Sorry to trouble you as you have so much on the go but just wondered if you are able to feed me some more info on

Livingstone,Lipscombe and Blackburn

Many thanks
Jenny

Hello again Derek,

Many thanks for your prompt reply.

Will do further checking and will get to you again later.

Thanks of lot.
Hetty

Hello Hetty.......I have looked at the 1881.1891 and 1901 Census Records.......and yes he is living on all three with parents William and harriet and loads of siblings..but on each of them he is described as Single..so I don't know what you mean by "abuse to his married family".
At this moment I cannot find a burial for him..although there is a burial for William Bradley in 1904..which may well be his father, because he doesn't appear on the 1911 Census..

You say you have information about his dying at Kelstedge...do you have a date?....or date for his imprisonment..or indeed for his alleged emigration???

Outgoing passenger Lists will show him somewhere..

all the best


Derek.