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Hello LA............It's a bit iffy to be honest...There is a very clear passage of Census returns for Catherine Thorp from 1851-1881.which show he birth as 1815 Bretby.

I have the marriage of CATHARINE DUCKERS to WILLIAM THORP 30.08.1836 Liverpool St Annes..in which the witnesses were John Duckers and E Duckers..as well as Georgiana Duckers, who is clearly the sister of Catharine.
Catharine died 27.08.1881 and is buried in St Wystan's Repton..and there is a photo of the gravestone......

So far so good...BUT..whatwe now call Bretby.a hamlet in the Parish of Repton, was then known as BRADBY.....but the PR's of Bradby appear only to be Baptisms
and only from 1766...There is NO Catharine Duckers 1815!!

JOHN DUCKERS married MARY FALKNER at Repton 08.05.1802...........and had the following children baptised at Bradby:-

Born 17.07.1803...Baptised 05.02.1804.........Mary
Born 16.02.1805...Baptised 01.09.1805 William
Born 03.12.1806....Baptised 03.05.1807.........Martha CATHARINA..........
Born 1 .04.1808....Baptised 06.11.1808..........John
Born 04.08.1810 Baptised 18.11.1808.........Matilda Ann
Born 30.07.1812 Baptised 06.09.1812.........GEORGIANA..
Edward Baptosed 03.12.1816

The baptism of Georgiana must refer to the same person on Catharine's marraige entry...........so proving the parentage of Catharine..............but which Catharine?

I'm going to search for any other possible information on Maria Catharina.......and I'm also interested in who the E Duckers is on the same marriage entry....

more later
PS..you will note a significantly even pattern of Births from 1803 to 1812..which suggests a birth about 1815 is missing!

Derek

EDIT.......Some interesting background.......1841 William and Catharine Throp (Thorp) are in Repton with two small children..one of who is Georgina!..William is a BUTCHER (god you love Butchers don't you!!)....but living with them is Catharine's brother EDWARD a Clerk. Interstingly he is shown aged 20..Catharine is shown as 25....we know Edward is in reality 25..so could catharine also be older?

Have found Matilda Ann...everything adds up there..in 1861 she is single aged 45 ..a housekeeper in a very posh establishment in mayfair..in 1871 she is married to John Chapman a builder and is living in Mayfair.
She died 07.01.1888 and left £1730.14.2d in her will!!

Hello Derek, thank you for this so far. Love your Avitar is it a new family addition ?. OH and I are amazed to see another butcher in the family. We are just commenting on the fact that it is amazing that my Dad was a cabinet maker and later worked on the Railways and a lot of his ancestors were in the same trade and just keeping with this side of the family tradition our youngest son is a butcher. :-D :-D :-D.

I look forward to any further information you can find on Catherine.

Again many thanks.

Hi Derek

My Derbyshire research has been shelved for a while due to other commitments, but I wanted to thank you for your constant help and advice during 2015.

I hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy and Peaceful 2016.

Susan :-) :-)

Hello Susan..How nice of you! ..thank you for your good wishes, which are of course returned............Have a very Good Christmas and New Year.....I look forward to our future exchanges xx

Derek.

Hi Derek,

Hope you had a good Christmas.

Do you have access to Sandiacre marriage records, could you check the marriage of Elizabeth Rigby and James Ginever on 17 Dec 1871 for who she put as father as on the family search site it has John and it should be Thomas also can you tell me who the witnesses were please.

Thank you

Wendy

Hello Wendy!!..belated Happy New year to you........my information is that ELIZABETH RIGBY was the daughter of Thomas and Ann.....probably in Sandiacre..though some Censuses say Bramcote..which is where James Ginever was from...........strangely they were both living on Town Street.....but one was in Bramcote and the other in Sandiacre..before they were married.....the marriage happened in December 1871 at Sandiacre on either 17th or 24th...........I don't haave the records, but coincidentally i am just off to Matlock records Office..and will no doubt find the answer to you query.
See you later. Derek
EDIT....17.42..........ok...Have seen the relevant original Documents,, and Family Search is..for once..spot on....the father of Elizabeth Rigby is definitely shown as JOHN RIGBY..maybe lacemaker, maybe labourer difficult to read..........but this clearly a mistake, because i also looked at the Baptisms..and found at least FIVE including Elizabeth 04.12.1853....four saughter and a son..children of THOMAS RIGBY and ANN............witnesses were Edwin Scott and Harriet Saxton.

On the basis that Ann Rigby might have re-married..to a John..I looked further and found, of course that Thomas Rigby was still hale and hearty in 1891..and still married to Ann.............The only JOHN RIGBY is their son, born in 1871..hardly eligible to appear at a wedding...

The father of James Givener was JAMES GIVENER a Coachman.......

There is plenty more detail on both families, but the marriage entry IS correct, and remains a mystery.

Derek

Hi Derek,

Thank you for checking for me always best to check, I like you think it must have been a mistake for some reason. I went into Nottingham Archives today and now have all the census for Thomas & Ann Rigby, Ann was born in Stapleford, she is my 3rd cousin 5 times removed.
Elizabeth's and James Ginever's daughter Sarah Ann is on the 1881 & 1891 census with Thomas & Ann as Grand daughter that so thought it was best to check marriage.

You say that Thomas & Ann had 4 daughters and 1 son I have Emily 1851, Elizabeth 1853, Catherine 1855 and John 1860, I did see on family search more children for a Thomas & Ann Rigby but it seems according to the 1871 census that there was another Thomas & Ann Rigby.

Again a big Thank you

Wendy

Hi Wendy,,It's just occurred to me that when I first looked at the baptism of the Rigby children it looked as though the parents were JAMES and Ann..and it was only when I checked Emily in 1851 that I realised it was Thomas.....which might explain the mistake on the marriage entry........you are probably aware that there were no less than THREE contemporaneous Rigby families in Sandiacre at that time.....William and George were the other two fathers to go along with Thomas.........I bet they were all related further back!!

If your interested let me know.....

Derek,

Hi Wendy,,It's just occurred to me that when I first looked at the baptism of the Rigby children it looked as though the parents were JAMES and Ann..and it was only when I checked Emily in 1851 that I realised it was Thomas.....which might explain the mistake on the marriage entry........you are probably aware that there were no less than THREE contemporaneous Rigby families in Sandiacre at that time.....William and George were the other two fathers to go along with Thomas.........I bet they were all related further back!!

If your interested let me know.....

Derek,

Hi Derek,

Thank you, On Family search it does say Thomas and Ann on the children's christenings its just the marriage of Elizabeth that has John. Its OK I'm only interested in Thomas & Ann and their descendants as it's Ann nee Girling (Gerling) that's on my Wallis Tree so no need to look at other Rigby's thank you anyway.

You as always are a Star :-D :-D

All the best

Wendy

Hi everybody...I've been around on Gr for a fair while, and hope that I have been able to open a few doors for a few people. The fact is that i am only on Genes in order to help as many folk as possible,and have never made any use of the records on this site..not even a wee once.....
Thus....now that there is very little doing on my Thread, and frankly that's been the case for some months now...I think it probably a bit daft to be paying a sub for nothing.. So when my Subscription terminates in March i will not be renewing it.
This does not mean that i am not around to help...a lot of you have my Email. and if you haven't then just PM me....I am on Rootschat, which is free for everybody..and I'm on FaceBook on Derbyshire genealogy.
In fact anywhere you see "Derek" and "Derbyshire" combined.its little old me.

Not going just yet....but.....

lots of hugs.

Derek

Oh Derek......so sorry to see you go but completely understand your decision.

Can't thank you enough for all your help over the past few years. You have found the answers to my questions and helped me work through my brick walls even when I have given you some really bad uns.

Will have a look on Rootschat as not a site I have looked at............perhaps you will find me on there as still got loads of Derbyshire research to do. My tree has come to a grinding halt at the moment due to other commitments !

All the best for the future. Thanks again for your help and time which you have kindly given so freely. Your a star :-)

Susan

Just noticed this Derek, so sorry to see you go but I can see your point. I am sure there are many others like me who are so very grateful for all your help. Take care <3 <3

Hi Derek,

Sorry to see you go.. Hope all is well with you..

I think you have my email address if you need any look ups at Nottingham Archives and I'm also on Rootschat.

All the best

Wendy

Hi Derek,

I'm so sorry that you are not renewing. I just want to thank you for the immense help you have been to me. I will have to look for you on Facebook.

Take care

Chrissie

Was just looking at the number of entries and replies on this Thread........seems a pity to lose that sort of record..............so sod it, i'm staying xxx

Good to hear you are staying :-D

And people could still do with your help


http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1358514?jump=1358514

Hi Derek


I am trying to find records for Lillian Letitia Kent born about 1884 in Shirland mother Hannah Kent and possible father Isaac Carlin. Marriage to George Seals Mar 1902. Any help appreciated

So pleased to hear that you're staying Derek. I will now try and find you something to look for.


Chrissie

Hello Sue..... this has been a bit of a problem because of a number of CARLIN families in the eastwood notts area..one of whom married a Hannah........BUT.......a rather elementary mistranscription of Letitia on the 1891 census has revealed all!

She is listed as SEBLIA Carlin.........on the 1891..but correctly as letitia on the 1901...in both cases as the daughter of Isaac and Hannah.

ISAAC CARLIN ws born in Coal Aston in 1861 and HANNAH KENT in 1866 in Higham Derbys (Higham is actually Shirland parish....
They married in Chesterfield District OND 1885............clearly after teir eldest daughter Letitia was born..as you say in 1884.

She was born Letitia kent...there followed several other children..and i suspect that althought she was registered as letitia KENT..she may well have been baptised along with her sisters a year or so later ate Shirland as Carlin.

I'll have to check that at Matlock because my Shirland records end before 1870.

HANNA KENT was the daughter of Samuel kent of \loughborough \leics and his wife Cynthia of Wessington Derbys...........
There's a start for you.....how far would you like me to go?

Derek.