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Hello Susan............yes you have the right family, although there are one or two areas of possible confusion.....

LUCY EMMA BUCKNALL was born 1899/1900.......but i have yet to find a Birth registration for her..........but working backwards with the hints you give, she is on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses...........
1901 has her aged 1..daughter of ALFRED BUCKNELL and ALICE EDITH...along with several other children.
In 1911 we have an additional child William Ewart Bucknall born 1903..and the 1911 Census shows that Alfred and Alice Edith had EIGHT children..of which TWO were dead by 1911.............which iswhere it gets very interesting.

There appears to be no recorded Marriage registration for ALFRED BUCKNALL/BUCKNELL to Alice Edith...............though a little detective work suggests her maiden name to be Alice Edith Smith..baptised Repton Derbyshire 30.06.1867.......daughter of THOMAS LAWRENCE SMITH of Barkston Leics and MARY JANE of Ilkeston.........

The eldest child of ALFRED and ALICE EDITH was Ellen born 1883,,for whom there is no Birth registration..and born when Alice was only 16.......and clessrly not married..................the next child appears to be George Stanley in 1890..which shows quite a gap between Ellen in 1883 and George in 1890..possible accounting for two infant deaths in the meantime.................

I have a full record for ALFRED BUCKNALL including his parents george and georgiana....born somewhere between derby and Burton on trent...Horninglow....not far from Repton........

The marriage of Lucy Emma to Mr Mitchell in 1922 is odd.....because keying in a marriage for Lucy comes up with a spouse Mitchell.........but keying in a search for Harold Mitchell comes up with a spouse Lucy Emma Bucknall!!.so your hunch is right there also........
I'll leave it there for now cos its late!!......you might have other info to share with me to enable me to go further..

Derek

Hi Derek......

Thank you so much for your reply.

Am expecting visitors so no time to digest your findings now.......will be in touch again tomorrow. Until then......

Susan
:-)

Hi Derek……….at last!
Been tiding up a few loose ends that have bothered me for a while. Family story has it that there was a connection between the Mitchell and Bucknall families, but didn’t know how.

Gran told me Fred Mitchell was a Grocer at Whittington Moor and had a daughter, Lillian and sons Ernie and Clem. She had fond memories of Aunts Lil and Lucy.

Found the Mitchells along with the rest of the family on 1911 census. Seems that HAROLD MITCHELL (son of Fred Mitchell) married LUCY EMMA BUCKNALL…

Now you have confirmed that LUCY was the daughter of ALFRED BUCKNALL, son of George and Georgiania it makes perfect sense. ALFRED was the brother of my great grandmother MARY ANN BUCKNALL born 1877 in Horninglow.

I don’t know Alfreds wife was previously Smith that’s an added bonus!

I have one more of my BUCKNALL siblings without a spouse. Can you check for a marriage for SARAH ADA born 1881 in Horninglow?

There you have it……….a happy researcher and another puzzle solved !!!

Many thanks for your help as always.

Susan
:-D :-D

Marriages Dec 1898 (>99%)
Brown Alice Burton 6b 633
Bucknall Sarah Burton 6b 633
Dale William Burton 6b 633
Felton John Burton 6b 633
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1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
219, Hawkins Lane, Burton upon Trent, Staffordshire, England

William Dale Head Married Male 29 1872 Gasworks Labourer Crewe, Cheshire, England
Sarah Dale Wife - Female 21 1880 - Burton, Staffordshire, England
Ada Dale - - Female 1 1900 - Burton, Staffordshire, England
George Bucknall Boarder Widower Male 62 1839 Boiler Maker Beeston, Nottinghamshire,

Hi Susan..looks like Gritty got in first (Thanks Gritty)...........but the findings are accurate..so perhaps that solves the issue..

Keep in touch..

Derek.

Thank you Derek and Gritty. Am very grateful for your help.

Will stay in touch, expect I will be back to bother you again before long !

Susan
:-)

Hello Vena..thank you for your PM regarding the family of george Shaw of Ilkeston..........I have not yet found his baptism which, as i have to;d you was A Wesleyan or primitive methodist affair.. along with some very oddly timed Baptisms for his children.........
I have tried to direct you back to this Page because it is much easier to work on here, and also anybody else interested can join in and offer you help.

Derek.

Hi Derek, I hope you can help with my Hopkinsons

William Hopkinson and his wife Maria baptise 5 children between 1829 and 1841 at St Peter's Derby, living first at Traffic Street and then Liversage Place/Street - Mary, Sarah Ann, William, Maria and George. He is variously a Twisthand, Ag Lab, Brewer and latterley a Farmer when the eldest girls marry.

There is a marriage in 1828 of a Wm Hopkinson to Maria Harrison also at St Peter's where the witnesses are Mary Morgan, John Hopkinson, William Hopkin (should that say Hopkinson) and Sally Harrison (probably sister) - all have signed.

In the 1851 census William is shown b Brackenfield c1801 and Maria c1804 in Crich. I can find a baptism for Maria in Crich 1804 daughter of William and Mary but not their marriage and beyond. A possible 1851 census sighting in Derby has him as a Shoemaker b London c 1778 and her as b Crich c 1780.

William's baptism has proved elusive as there are a number of Wiliams born around that time. Can you determine William's parentage, siblings etc.

Thanks for your help to find both William and Maria's forebears.

Hello Greyghost.firstly, you can ignore the London connection..it is spurious....

The 1841 and 1851 Censuses follow quite logically with Willam Hopkinson, his wife maria and their children at LiversagePlace/Street...........and the marriage at St peter's is correct, and is followed by at least four baptidms in the same Church:-
Sarah Ann 05.02.1832..William 08.11.1835...Maria 28.04.1839..and George 09.05.1841......

Maria nee Harrison was from Crich. and was baptised 06.05.1804 along with Sally 10.03.1805 and William Erasmus 12.02.1809.children of WILLIAM and MARY HARRISON...who may have been married at North Wingfield 30.03.1803....Mary's maiden name being Jenkinson. ( I am fairly sure of this being correct, partly becasue of the proximity of Crich to North Wingfield.. and of the timing..along with there being no other appropriate alternative.

The clue as to the origins of WILLIAM HOPKINSON lies in the 1851 mention of Brackenfield.
Brackenfield did not become a separate Parish until 1844..and was previously a Chapelry in the Parish of Morton..which is where William was baptised.....as follows:
Elizabeth baptised 24.11.1793
WILLIAM baptised 08.04.1798
Sarah baptised 25.01.1801
Mary baptised 20.11.1802
Ann baptised 30.09.1804
George 02.04.1809
Ellen 12.02.1815..............all children of:-

WILLIAM HOPKINSON and ANN nee WHOLEY..who were married at Morton 17.12.1792

How's that for starters???

Derek.

Great for starters!! Thank you Derek.

So, if I'm reading you correctly, you believe that William Harrison b 1778 London, Shoemaker married to Mary on the 1851 census are not the correct William and Mary to be Maria's parents, despite Mary being shown, co-incidentally, as born Crich?? Or that it was a local marriage and William Harrison originated in London?

As you suggest this is my starter for 10, are you offering to take William Hopkinson/Ann Wholey and William Harrison/Mary Jenkinson back further ?????

I do hope I can get to Matlock before too long - a lovely B&B by the river and park and that lovely hill to climb to the records office.................

Hi please could you inform us of Stanton rd used to be known as boot lane our ancestors lived there in 1841 named George shaw and Millicent shaw were there thatched cottages does anyone know when these were relaxed with houses please,

Hello Greyghost.first..let me tell you that my addled brain confused William Harrison with William Hopkinson.........and that, having now found the 1851 Census entry you refer to,,there is no reason to believe that WILLIAM HARRISON born 1780 London.is not the man begat MARIA HARRISON at Crich in 1804.............
it is unlikely, however, that i can get any further back with William Harrison, since i have at least eight possible births for him in London.
However....your "Starter for ten" does indeed suggest that I can and will go back further..because once i get my teeth into something I rarely let go..............such fun getting into all sorts of trouble!!.

I can now confirm that WILLIAM HARRISON married MARY JENKINSON 30.03.1803 at North Wingfield............don't ask me why..but it happened......and they had the children at CRICH that i have already given you..PLUS..Mary Harrison baptised Crich 15.02.1807.......
Just to consolidate the Mary Jenkinson..she was baptised at Crich 24.06.1781 daughter of Richard Jenkinson and Martha (nee Rowland) who were married at Crich 04.02.1767.
Their other children were:-
Samuel 10.10.1768
Sarah 19.08.1770
Ann 24.04.1774
Hannah 26.05.1776
Richard 28.02.1779........

which i think will do for now, before i blind you with my brilliance!!!.......the hill at Matlock is anything but lovely!!..having walked up it many many times.......but why go to Matlock when you have me!!! (tongue in cheek...............!!!)

Derek.

Hello vena..I'm glad you managed to get back onto this thread.........firstly...all the "Shaw" families that appear to lbe neighbours of GEORGE SHAW in 1841 and 1851..are in fact STRAW's not SHAW's...........STRAW is a very common Ilkeston and district name.
Secondly in 1841 George and Millicent and family were actually living in Outram's Buildings..off boot lane..and in 1851 were living in Chapel Street......
I am not able to tell you when exactly Boot lane was demolished and became Stanton Road............but there was an awful lot of destruction in the area after 1945........I'm sure there are Sources that will tell you exactly what happened and when........

Derek.

Cheers Derek,
Yes, the hill at Matlock being lovely was MY tongue in cheek comment!
And so, whilst I have you, then I am prepared to take anything that you can give, I am perfectly happy to be blinded. I do love the hunt though, so I will be struggling up that hill again sometime. It will make a change from Nottingham.

Like you, I don't think it's likely that the right Wm Harrison can be decided, so that branch may well end there. Also, there's nothing to say Wm and Mary Harrison in the 1851 I found are Maria's parents - the names are too common and I expect a good number of William's and Mary's were born in the area about the same time and may well have died pre census.

So, if you can take the Hopkinsons, Wholeys and Jenkinsons further back, then I'm all for that.

I'll leave the Woods who married into my Bellamys for another time...............perhaps next week?

Thankyou Derek

Hi Derek, Ephraim was George shaws son he was a master boot and shoe maker he died in 1879 lived in North street Ilkeston .... Anywhere that may have photographs or if he would have worked from home or a shop, anyway of finding this info please

Hi Derek

I am wondering if you can help. I have an ancester, Josiah Windle, born about 1780 and married a Dorothy Badgeley (not sure of exact spelling it varies from record to record) and died in about 1844 in Beeley Derbyshire. I cannot trace any information about him at all except his marriage (i have a copy of the certificate from the Matlock registery) and the fact that he lived in Beeley and had various children. I cannot find any trace of his birth and, therefore, of who his parents were etc.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Regards

Pat

Hello Pat..very nice to hear from you. You have a number of problems.
First you say you have a copy of the marriage certificate from Matlock...the very best you might get from Matlock would be a copy of the marriage Entry..certificates were not issued until 1837.
The marriage between Dorothy and Josiah does not exist!!

Relevant entries from the BEELEY PR's ( there is only one Windle family) are as follows:-

JOSIAH WINDLE married SARAH BAGELEY/Badgley) 13.04.1807..and had the following children
Thomas baptised 20.03.1808
Mary baptised 15.04.1810
John baptised 02.05.1813..buried 01.09.1813
Elizabeth baptised 09.07.1815
Josiah baptised 22.04.1818 married Mary Marples of Baslow 07.12.1840.

JOSIAH WINDLE was buried at Beeley 24.07.1845
SARAH WINDLE specifically entered as Widow of Josiah Windle was buried at Beeley 14.07.1846

Sarah was baptised 25.08.1782 daughter of THOMAS BADGLEY and his wife Dorothy nee Sparks, who were married 30.05.1780 at Bakewell.

The census for 1841 has Josiah Windle Agricultural Labourer and his wife sarah..together with sons Thomas and Josiah.....Josiah is still single, but Thomas has a wife Hannah and two small children Sarah 8 and John 2.....

I have a complete record for the families of Josiah junior and his brother Thomas if you want any further information....

THOMAS BADGLEY husband of Dorothy Sparks and father of Sarah Windle..was baptised at Beeley 16.09.1750 son of Francis and Elizabeth.

The only DOROTHY BADGLEY I can find in any records married George Smith at Beeley 26.07.1788..........

At present I can find no record of the Birth of Josiah Windle 1780 ish...the 1841 census has both he and his wife Sarah ages 55 and born in derbyshire......

I welcome your response.......

Derek


EDIT......I',ve just realised that I sent you this information on the 5th March 2013..you didn't reply, so I can only assume you didn't get it..please let me know you get this message.....incidentally there is a Gravestone in Beeley Church yard..covering the grave of Josiah Windle. his wife Sarah, their son john aged 1 and their daughter Elizabeth aged 21.and Josiah is shown aged 65, which puts his birth year 1780.....

HI Derek

Thanks for your reply. Sorry I did not get the previous one. You are correct in that the Matlock entry is just the copy of the Parish record and it does not help because the witnesses recorded are not any relative - I had hoped there would be at least his father recorded!! The other info you give I already have - Josiah is my great x 4 grandfather so much of what came after him I already know. Problem is - where did he come from? He manages to turn up in Beeley and marries Dorothy but before that is a blank!! I have tried every search I can think of to try and find a birth for him but am drawing a blank!! Any suggestions?

Regards

Pat

Sorry refered to his wife as Dorothy which was actually his mother in law, he married Sarah of course!!