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And she does it again.


1891

Name: Charles Wm Challenger
[his middle name would be noted because he went by William, to distinguish him from his father Charles]
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Clara
>> Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Allensmore
County/Island: Herefordshire

Charles Challenger 59
- mistranscribed - he is 39, not 59
Clara Challenger 36
Charles Wm Challenger 10
Emiley Challenger 8
Frank Challenger 4
Mary Challenger 62


Marriages Sep 1878
CHALLENGER Charles Aston 6d 444
Wisedale Clara Aston 6d 444

Births Jun 1880
CHALLENGER Charles William Aston 6d 387
>>> the right quarter for May 1, 1880


I note that William Charles James used the names Frank and Clara -- mother and brother of Charles William Challenger -- in his children's names.

Oh duh. And me of all people.

He married in SA in 1903. Anglo-Boer War, anyone?

If you're curious, Peter, this is the bit of my tale I refer to:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=976217&px=2

The post down the page starting "I'm just putting this here for my own self" and continued later with the news I have found family (born in SA) of my gr-grfather's nephew who was in the Imperial Yeomanry in that war. After several years of searching, having first had to figure out who the &*#$ my gr-grfather was.

http://www.britishmedals.us/files/iyj.htm

James, William 4316, Private 62nd Coy., 14th Bn. I.Y.
James, William 39612, Private 141st Coy., 31st Bn. I.Y.
James, William 4269, Trooper H.Q., 11th Bn. I.Y.
James, William 41084*, Trooper 2nd Scottish Horse
James, William 43039, Trooper* 39th Bn. I.Y.


Who knows? I'm no persuaded we're going to find records of your WCJ under that name, though ...

In 1881, which is searchble by address at Ancestry, there are 1,152 names on Long Acre. No James. No #403. I guessed at 381 and found it .... it ends at 399. !!

More tricks to try yet ...

Okay, we need Viv. I don't pay for 1911 access so I can't go any farther than this. (What I've found so far comes using from various tricks.)

In 1911, these names are in a single household on Long Acre, but I don't know what number:

JAMES ELIZABETH 1875 36 Aston Warwickshire
JAMES JOES 1871 40 Aston Warwickshire
JAMES PHLLIS 1899 12 Aston Warwickshire


If you want to see the area, go to google maps and look for

long acre, birmingham, uk

The house number 403 does not exist today. Put it on satellite view and you will see that the street now seems to be entirely commercial/industrial.

Aaargh. I finally got back to google maps as I had been meaning to do forever, and asked for 403 Longacre, and got prompted by things about LONG ACRE, two words.

The 1903 census has the address:

403 LONG ACRE NECHELLS BIRMINGHAM Aston Aston Warwickshire

Aaargh.

AT THAT ADDRESS IN 1911 we have:

CHALLENGER CLARA 1859 52 Aston Warwickshire
CHALLENGER FRANK 1887 24 Aston Warwickshire
BURTON JOSEPH 1880 31 Aston Warwickshire

This is not telling us anything immediately, but it is a start.

Peter, what I quoted:

“My great grandfather William Charles James, born in Birmingham on 1 May 1880"

was taken from your 2001 letter to a Birmingham govt agency, which I found when I googled "403 Longacre". Your letter is published in a newsletter of some sort. I'm not related in any way. I'm just one of your fellow GR members, one of a core of a few dozen who find these searches very diverting and who are quite good at them.

This is confusing:

"Flora died 6 Feb 1956 in Winkelspruit, South Africa"
"William Charles had 2 other children with Frieda Elizabeth Elna Nielson who he only married 30 days after Flora Cameron died. Their 2 children were: Ayliff William (d.o.b 05/11/1928) and Fay Joan (d.o.b 5/9/1932)"

Ah, I see. They were estranged, and WC was not free to remarry until Flora's death.


Anyhow, the problem remains that there is no birth of a William Charles James in 1880 in Warwickshire, or thereabouts in time and space even.

So either that DOB is inaccurate, because either he or his family did not know it (what document is it taken from?), or his birth was registered under a different name. Neither is necessarily cause for despair, and neither was hugely uncommon.

The date of birth of my great grandfather WIlliam Charles James is also 1 May 1880. He married Flora Cameron Dunsmore on the 23 Sept 1905 at the St Paul's Church in Durban South Africa. He was 24 and she was 22.
Flora died 6 Feb 1956 in Winkelspruit, South Africa
William Charles died on 11 November 1964 in Durban, South Africa - born in Birmingham, England
No names of parents appear on any of these documents.
William Charles & Flora Cameron's children are:
Frank Thomas & William John (d.o.b 05/07/1907), Birmingham, England)
Agnes Claira (d.o.b 27/08/1909), Durban, South Africa)
Charlotte Alfreda (d.o.b 19/11/1911), Durban, South Africa
Roselyn Flora (d.o.b 28/12/1913), Durban, SOuth Africa
Nellie May (d.o.b 6/3/1920), Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Kathleen Joyce (d.o.b 22/04/1922), Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Charles Alfred (d.o.b 26/11/1924), Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Only Joyce and Alfred are still alive, but they have absolutely no information about their parents as they were very small when their Dad left and their mother refused to speak about the family.

William Charles had 2 other children with Frieda Elizabeth Elna Nielson who he only married 30 days after Flora Cameron died. Their 2 children were: Ayliff William (d.o.b 05/11/1928) and Fay Joan (d.o.b 5/9/1932)

Don't know what information you have on your William Charles or whether this information ties in with anything you might have.

Please be patient with me.
Regards
Peter

From the Birmingham link mentioned:

“My great grandfather William Charles James, born in Birmingham on 1 May 1880"

You do know there was no birth in that name registered in Warwickshire in 1880? A William Edward, but no William Charles.

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl


Seriously, if you just laid out what it is you're looking for and the facts you have - place of marriage, whether you have a marriage record showing parents'/fathers' names, whether you have any record of William in a census pre-1907, etc., you might get considerable help here.




There are no Dunsmore-James marriages in the GRO index.

So would these also be births to your couple?

Births Mar 1914
JAMES Margaret B Dunsmore Kings N 6d 67

Births Sep 1915
James Eileen D Dunsmore Aston 6d 969

Any time! ... I see you didn't actually take it. You were most graciously polite in the item I found for myself:

http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/Media/voice%20227.pdf?
MEDIA_ID=200859&FILENAME=voice%20227.pdf

What you're actually looking for is info about Frank's father's family?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1187893

It is considered to be wise to keep queries about a single household in a single thread, since they are essentially the same "topic" (see rules).

It can be pointless for one person or group of people to be searching for one aspect of a family's events while another person or group searches for another, each with different info to start with, and each possibly dupliating the other's efforts as it tries to get a handle on the household.

Thanks for the free advice Janey.
My grandfather's birth certificate gives his parents names as William Charles James and Flora Cameron James (Dunsmore). But they did not live there. I am led to believe that Flora went to the UK to have her baby by her inlaws (James). I have no further information about what Flora's inlaws names were. My great grandfather never accompanied his wife to the UK for the birth of the children.

Very odd.

If you know your grandfather was born there, you have the birth certificate and know his parents' names? Their surname wasn't James? Some other James was living there?

I wonder whether saying something like "would someone who has access to Brady's directories kindly do a lookup for me ..." might go farther than "Bradys 1907 and earlier ..."


Interestingly, in 1911, the only address on Longacre in Aston, occupied by a Turner household, seems to be:
89 LONGACRE NECHELLS BIRMINGHAM

I'm looking for the Braby's directories that give street addresses and the names of the people that lived there.
The family name I am looking for is the James family. Don't know the first names.

on the one hand you are saying James family and on the other, Brady's - which are you looking for? Also, give some forenames to help

Looking for James family in Birmingham. Grandfather was born at 403 Longacre Av, Birmingham. Family must have stayed in that area.