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Hi Dea

Thank you for the snippet - I haven't seen this before. Which websites do you use? Have you been able to find a birth record for Frank?

Just wanted to clarify how do you know it to be Frank's brother as I haven't found a brother John before. In the 1861 census Frank is living with his father Frank (widower) brother Thomas and sisters Mary & Catherine.

I suspect Frank's wife is Catherine (surname not sure), reason why I suspect it is Catherine is because Catherine the daughter is born Mar quarter 1861 (registered Convey) and there is also a death for a Catherine Convey in the same quarter. It can't be the death of the baby because she is on the census. Catherine the baby dies in Sep quarter 1861.

Debra

Hi again Debra,

I have been searching around but haven't got any further with this - sorry.

I did find this little 'snippet' though about Franks brother John so I thought you might like to have it (if you didn't already know')

He married an Irish girl and went off to America:

Name: Agnes Conmy
Birth Date: 18 Jan 1892
Birthplace: Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Gender: Female
Race: White
Father's Name: John Joseph Conmy
Father's Birthplace: Market Weighton, Yorkshire, Eng.
Father's Age: 34y
Mother's Name: Bridget Maher
Mother's Birthplace: Castlebar, Tiprary, Ireland
Mother's Age: 25y

Film Number: 1287923
Digital Folder Number: 4031099
Image Number: 1577
Reference Number: 2515
Collection: Illinois, Cook County Birth Certificates, 1878-1922

Dea x

You are very welcome Debra.

No - they didn't starve, although lunch was rather later than it should have been (tee hee).

I will see if I can find anything else for you.

Dea x

Dea

Thank you for the time you have taken today - I hope the family didn't starve!

Debra

Well, I have found the 1871 for Catherine and Mary and her age is 'way out so it was
either mistranscribed on 1881 or on 1871, or both ???

1871 Scotland Census
about Mary Helen Barry Name: Mary Helen Barry
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relationship: Daughter
Mother's Name: Agnes Miller
Gender: Female
Where born: St Vigeans, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 272
Registration district: Arbroath
Civil parish: Arbroath
Town: Arbroath
County: Angus
Address: 8 Shore
Occupation: Coastguardmans Wife **********
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 4
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1871_47
Household Members: Name Age
Agnes Miller 55 Tailor's wife b. St Vigeans, Forfarshire
Catherine Barry 49
Mary Helen Barry 1

Source Citation: Parish: Arbroath; ED: 6; Page: 1; Line: 14; Roll: CSSCT1871_47; Year: 1871.

...........................

I was hoping to find that James married a Catherine Graham but unfortunately
she was a Catherine Murphy !! (Margaret could have been born to Catherine prior
to her marriage to James?)

Name: Mary Helen Barry

Birth Date: 08 Jan 1870
Birthplace: SAINT VIGEANS,ANGUS,SCOTLAND

Father's Name: James Barry
Mother's Name: Catherine Murphy

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11319-3
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 6035516
Reference Number:
Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

However, we really need to find the marriage for James + Catherine, probably in Scotland
to see if either of them had been married before.

Dea x

I have been looking at this and have been trying to follow the family back through
census, hoping that Catherine might have been a 2nd wife to James and that Margaret
was his child of the 1st marriage but I can't see them and have to go and make a
start on lunch or we will starve !!!!!

1881 Scotland Census
about James Barry Name: James Barry
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Catherine Barry
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 456
Registration district: Scoonie
Civil parish: Scoonie
County: Fife
Address: 17 South St
Occupation: Coast Guard ********
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 164
Line: 17
Roll: cssct1881_126
Household Members: Name Age
James Barry 41
Catherine Barry 36 c 1845 Ireland
Mary Barry 11 b Arbroath, Forfarshire, c 1870
Hannah Barry 9 b "
Catherine Barry 7 Elie, Fifeshire, c 1874
John Barry 5 "
Patrick Barry 1 b Leven, Fifeshire


Source Citation: Parish: Scoonie; ED: 1; Page: 26; Line: 17; Roll: cssct1881_126; Year: 1881.


Perhaps someone would have time to take a look, or I will come back and explore later??

Dea x

No problem

I have been going round and round in circles with this part of my tree for many months.

Sorry Debra, my brain mislaid that bit! Apologies.
Jan

Jan

This is the marriage for which I have the certificate - 99.9% certain it is correct hence my questions about Margaret's earlier life (including a possible first marriage).

The certifcate says she is a spinster, but if she is the mother of Thomas Wm Berry then it is either a lie or a mistake.

Regards
Debra

Hi Debra.
Just thought I'd ask - did you ever consider the marriage posted right at the beggining? (11/10/2009 unbelievably!).
Jan

Dea

FYI - I have found someone in ancestry who has this person in their tree. I have corresponded with this person before as she is very distantly related to the Convey (Conmy) connection - John Conmy (changed his name to Convey in 1901,) his first wife Jane Law was the sister of this person's relative. Have sent her a message asking if she can possibly explain the relationship.

Name: Michael Coughlin
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Brother
Mother's Name: Sarah Coughlin
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: St George
Town: York
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: York
Sub-registration district: Walmgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 146
Household Members: Name Age
Martin Coughlin 26
Bridget Coughlin 24
John Coughlin 3
Sarah Coughlin 50
Michael Coughlin 28

nudge

Hi Dea

Frank & Margaret's marriage cert:-

Date of marriage 27/2/1886.

Frank Conmy aged 30 yrs Widower, Labourer. Address at time of marriage Willow Street York. Father's Name Frank Conmy Hawker.

Margaret Barry aged 26yrs Spinster. Address at time of marriage Lewis's Yard Willow Street York. Father's name James Barry Coast Guardsman.

Married St Georges Church RC.

Witnesses - Mary McLoughlin and Michael Coughlin.

This is the death record of the youngest son ( he lied about his age and joined the army in WW1) here it refers to Margaret Maud Conmy.
Conmy, Robert Owen
Private 23588, 2nd Bn., West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own). Died 4th July 1916. Aged 16. Son of Margaret Maude Conmy, of 20, Carmelite St., Hungate, York. Buried Daours Communal Cemetery Extension, France, II. B. 8. Commemorated on the St Margaret with St Peter-le-Willows Church War Memorial, Walmgate

Are there any witnesses on that marriage cert please?

Where have you found that Margaret has the middle name Maud?

Dea x

On the possible marriage for Frank & Margaret (1886) Margaret is recorded as a Spinster , Father James Barry.

From what I have been told by a descendant of John Conmy (Convey) b1885 child of Frank & Margaret, John's birth cert shows mother's maiden name as BERRY.

In the 1891 census Thomas Wm Conmy b c1883 Selby, the only birth I can come up with is Thomas Wm Berry, for which I have ordered the certificate and which shows mother as Margaret Berry formerly Graham.

Train of thought is that Margaret Graham married William Berry (when?) had Thomas, for some reason parted. Margaret meets Frank who is a widower has John in 1885 marries in 1886. Margaret tells the minister she is a Spinster he assumes that her maiden name is therefore BERRY or BARRY, records the father's name as James BARRY when in fact it could be Graham.

Hope this makes sense.

Debra

Just to clarify, on previous page you have marriage details for Margaret "Barry" to Frank Conmy. On the cert it states her father is James Barry. So she can't be Margaret Graham can she? Maybe I'm just getting muddled!
Jan

Child's birth certificate should have Mother's maiden name, not previously married name, so if showing Barry or Berry, her maiden name is not Graham but is B*rry.
But perhaps they just misinterpreted when registering the births.

May help clarify - Have found a list of Inmates to the workhouse in 1881 and they are not on the list then.

nudge - just in case someone looking for a challenge this morning.

In 1891 census Thomas William Conney / Conmy born Selby is found living with Frank & Margaret (see Glitter Baby's posting above). Unable to locate birth in the name of Conney / Conmy or similar but found Thomas William Berry b Selby 1883.

Have obtained birth cert of this birth and it shows mother to be Margaret Berry formerley Graham. Place of birth Selby Union Workhouse. Father William Berry.

Trying to prove that this Margaret is the same Margaret that married Frank and that this Thomas is the same Thomas as in the census. Cannot find marriage between William & Margaret.

Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks
Debra