Find Ancestors

Just happened to be browsing the Skinner surname board and thought what a shame it was that Dawn never acknowledged the work in this thread, with the answers to her questions.

And yet, Dawn, you started a new thread just last month, almost a year later:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1236255

"Hello, I thank you all for the info given to me so far, but I need some advice."

No one who helped in this thread would ever have seen that one, or remembered what it was about if they did.

You may be reading the Skinner "surname board". We're reading the full board -- up at the top, "To list the entire trying to find board again **click here**" -- so when your new post appears, your old post has disappeared, several hundred pages back.


... Oh look ...even better ...

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1233540

New people got to do all this ALL OVER AGAIN. Honestly ...

Nope, I didn't find the marriage, because idiot me, I searched for Frederick and not Fred*. ;) It was a very dozy weekend here (Monday was Thanksgiving, much turkey being eaten starting on Sunday in my house) and I was operating through a fog for that whole epic!

I suspected Edith was granddaughter - daughter of Lillian perhaps.

I am sure this marriage must already have been found but I can't see it in the thread so I will post it just in case:

Marriages Jun 1891 (>99%)
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Harvey Ellen Orsett 4a 433
Skinner Fredrick Orsett 4a 433

Dea x

Full details from the 1911 which Janey found:
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TREADWELL, Ellen Head Married F 41 1870 Charwoman Essex N K VIEW
TREADWELL, George Son Single M 7 1904 School London Wandsworth VIEW
TREADWELL, Walter Son Single M 4 1907 London Wandsworth VIEW
SKINNER, Lillian Daughter Single F 19 1892 Servant Domestic London Catford Kent VIEW
SKINNER, Dorothy Daughter Single F 17 1894 Servant Domestic Balham Ldn VIEW
SKINNER, Frederick Son M 14 1897 School Balham Ldn VIEW
SKINNER, Edith Granddaughter F 0 (2 MONTHS) 1911 Weston Ldn VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2282 Reference:
RG14PN2282 RG78PN77 RD26 SD4 ED32 SN362

Registration District:
Wandsworth Sub District:
Clapham EnumerationDistrict:
32 Parish:
Wandsworth Borough

Address:
52 Scholars Road Balham S W County:
London


NB. Image says Ellen is a widow and Edith is 'grand-daughter !!

Dea x

In 1901, Mary Ann (Harvey Soderberg) Carter is shown as born in Laindon, Essex, c. 1859.


1871:

Name: Mary Ann Harvey
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Wm
Mother's Name: Emma
Where born: Laindon, Essex, England

Name: Ellen Harvey
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Wm
Mother's Name: Emma
Where born: Ramsden Bellhouse, Essex, England

Civil parish: Ramsden Bellhouse
County/Island: Essex

Wm Harvey 45
Emma Harvey 35
Mary Ann Harvey 11
Martha Ann Harvey 8
James Harvey 6
Sarah Harvey 4
Ellen Harvey 4 (that's what it says, but I suspect an error)


1881

Name: Ellen Harvey
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Emma
Where born: Ramsden Crays, Essex, England

Civil parish: Stanford Le Hope
County/Island: Essex

William Harvey 57
Emma Harvey 46
Sarah Harvey 14
Ellen Harvey 11
George F. Harvey 9
James Harvey 16
James Harvey 48


1891

Name: Ellen Harvey
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Ramsden Crays, Essex, England

Civil parish: Lewisham
County/Island: London

Sidney G Hart 53
Marion E Hart 46
Gertrude M Hart 23
Ernest S W Hart 20
Annie Mank 28 (aargh, it's my Monk/Monck mistranscription demon!)
Ellen Harvey 21


1901 ... can't be sure of who she is.


Births Mar 1870
HARVEY Ellen Billericay 4a 183

And in 1911, this Dorothy was born in Balham:

SKINNER DOROTHY 1894 17 Wandsworth London

SKINNER EDITH 1911 2 MONTHS Wandsworth London
SKINNER LILLIAN 1892 19 Wandsworth London
SKINNER FREDERICK 1897 14 Wandsworth London
> TREADWELL ELLEN 1870 41 Wandsworth London
TREADWELL GEORGE 1904 7 Wandsworth London
TREADWELL WALTER 1907 4 Wandsworth London


I haven't run through the entire alphabet to see who's living in the household, if anyone else, but that's a good start.

Not seeing a Treadwell-Harvey or Treadwell-Skinner marriage to match ...


Births Mar 1904
Treadwell George William Wandsworth 1d 694

Births Sep 1906
Treadwell Walter Burton Wandsworth 1d 620

Births Mar 1911 ??
Skinner Edith E Lambeth 1d 277

Oh, look what I found in 1901.

Name: Doty Skinner
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Balham, London, England

Civil parish: Northfleet
Registration district: Strood
County/Island: Kent

Wm Chas Carter 40
Mary Ann Canter 42
Hy J Soderberg 19 - stepson
Doty Skinner 7


My my. William Charles Carter. As in the marriage I posted above:

Marriages Sep 1927
Carter William C Skinner Strood 2a 2039
Skinner Dorothy A Carter Strood 2a 2039


And here's what I'd been wondering about after pondering that Carter-Skinner marriage:

Deaths Jun 1929
Carter William C 68 Strood 2a 879

A little old, I thought ... but just exactly the age of that WCC in 1901.


I think we're looking at something very interesting here!


Marriages Sep 1877
Brooks Emma London C 1c 79
> Harvey Mary Ann London C 1c 79
> SODERBERG William Henry London C 1c 79
Thorogood William London C. 1c 79

Marriages Jun 1906
> Carter William Charles Strood 2a 1295
Howlett William John A Strood 2a 1295
MITCHELL Elizabeth Ann Strood 2a 1295
> Soderberg Mary Ann Strood 2a 1295

Mary Ann would be sister to Ellen Harvey who married (?) Frederick Skinner. If Ellen Harvey was in fact unmarried, it would be reasonable to see her daughter being reared by her older sister.


I think you may just have found your Dorothy!!

How about another theory?

My grandmother, born 1901, didn't have a middle name, and always longed for one.

How about a Dorothy who didn't have a middle name, and gave herself one?


Births Sep 1897
Skinner Dorothy Vallis Cheltenham 6a 435

Vallis is her mother's surname:

Marriages Mar 1891
Skinner Henry Adolphus St. Giles 1b 807
Vallis Edith Elizabeth St.Giles 1b 807


1914 to 1921, there is one Dorothy V Skinner marriage, and that's Dorothy Victoria D Skinner, born 1897 in Poole, married 1920 in Bodmin. A Dorothy V Skinner married in Shoreditch in 1925, but that would be the Dorothy Violet Skinner born in Shoreditch in 1906, likely. A Dorothy Violet was born in Bromley in 1905. And a Dorothy V married in St Martin (London) in 1928 - the one birth to that marriage was 1934 in West Ham ... . No Dorothy V Skinner death 1911-1921. So there's at least one Dorothy V Skinner unaccounted for.


1901 in Bloomsbury St George and St Giles in The Fields:

Elizabeth Vallis 60
Arthur F Vallis 37
Edith E Skinner 31
Henry A Skinner 33
George F Skinner 9
Edith S Skinner 8
Dorothy V Skinner 3
Thomas Carew 65


1911:

SKINNER DOROTHY VALLIS 1898 13 West Ham Essex
SKINNER HENRY ADOLPHUS 1868 43 West Ham Essex
SKINNER EDITH ELIZABETH 1870 41 West Ham Essex
SKINNER GEORGE FRANCIS 1892 19 West Ham Essex
SKINNER EDITH LILAS 1893 18 West Ham Essex
SKINNER HERBERT JAMES 1904 7 West Ham Essex

Maybe she just really hated having her mother's surname as her middle name. ;)

It's another loony but possible theory! With no way to confirm or deny it ...


I have wondered whether Skinner was really your Dorothy's married name, she was estranged from her husband, and she did not want to register her children as his. Only one Dorothy A married a Skinner around the time in question, and she was Dorothy Alberta Pevalin, born 1890 in West Ham. There's a mistranscription for him; he was John B Skinner, married 1913. And they had children 1914, 1919 and 1930.


One other thing I thought of was looking at other Skinner marriages and births in Strood after 1911. That would take a whole lot of time though, to track down who the various spouses/parents were.

One interesting thing, though. Remember the Dorothy A Skinner marriage in Strood?

Marriages Sep 1927
Carter William C Skinner Strood 2a 2039
Skinner Dorothy A Carter Strood 2a 2039

No apparent births to that couple ...

Your Dorothy had her children in 1916 and 1924 in Strood.



Back to your birth cert:

Dorothy Annie Skinner was born on 26th October 1893 in Streatham, Wandsworth at 24 Martindale Road, Balham.
Father being Frederick Skinner - mother Ellen Skinner formerly Harvey.
Mothers address given as the same

-- danged if I can find her/them in 1901. Or a marriage for those names.

That's interesting.

No middle names for Frederick or Ellen? How about Frederick's occupation?

hello
birth certificate for Dorothy Annie Skinner turned up today ( how come they take longer when you know that its a true one?)
This one says thay Dorothy Annie Skinner was born o 26th October 1893 in Streatham, Wandsworth at 24 Martindale Road, Balham. Father being Frederick Skinner - mother Ellen Skinner formerly Harvey. Mothers address given as the same
I don't know????
Thank you to all that have helped so far
Dawn

Dea, I know what I'll bet I did, because I've done it before.

I forgot to delete the birth year (with the +/- 5 or whatever I'd used) when I searched for other household members. So I only got the kids.

Duh. But now we know. ;)


Will be waiting for that birth cert!

Hi folks
Just found a Dorothy Annie Skinner b 1893 Wandsworth.
I haven't seen this before so have sent for certificate just in case!
It is worth a shot because her age could have been wrong on death certificate.
Even though I cannot prove anything until 1921 census, it is worth having (just in case it is her)
Thank you all for your help
Dawn x

Very strange Janey,

I don't know how to a 'A-Z' search, except by putting each letter in one by one (a bit tedious so I never do it).

On this occasion I just put Annie in as the other person in the household and Skinner (surname) at the top and 'up they came' !!

As you say though, I don't think she is the correct one but just posted for your information!

Dea x

Well phew, Dea! I have no idea - not even my leter-by-letter search got them living in the same household. Weird!

I do still suspect that's not our girl, but at least we have her sorted out for future ref. ;)

That's strange Janey, my 1911 search brought her up still with parents James + Eliza (+ the other children you found!):

Schedule type Last names First names Sex Birth year Age in 1911

District / other County / other Transcript Original page
HOUSEHOLD SKINNER ANNIE F 1896 15 Strood Kent
HOUSEHOLD SKINNER CHARLES JAMES M 1864 47 Strood Kent
HOUSEHOLD SKINNER ELIZA F 1867 44 Strood Kent
HOUSEHOLD SKINNER GEORGE M 1900 11 Strood Kent
HOUSEHOLD SKINNER GORDON M 1902 9 Strood Kent
HOUSEHOLD SKINNER JAMES CHARLES M 1898 13 Strood Kent

Dea x

Hi the death informant was her daughter Bridget

thanks Janey


Dawn, who was the death informant????

anyone able to look up electoral role for 10 Trafalgar road Gravesend
around 1930???

Vicci: Dorothy Skinner died 26th March 1932 aged 36 at 10 Trafalgar road, Gravesend Kent

Meant to note for Dawn: if the age at death was correct (it depends on the informant's knowledge), this would mean she was born between 27 March 1895 (about to be 37) and 26 March 1896 (just turned 36).

So her birth could have been registered from Q1 1895 to Q2 1896 (if she was born March 1896 and the birth not registered until the next quarter).

do you have her death certificate?

where was she living , exactly
and who registered the death?

thank you! will start investigating all the theories now. I will let you all know how I get on.
Many thanks to you all
Dawn

Interesting results in 1911.

Found Annie:

SKINNER ANNIE 1896 15 Strood Kent

and Skinners living with her:

SKINNER GEORGE 1900 11 Strood Kent
SKINNER GORDON 1902 9 Strood Kent
SKINNER JAMES CHARLES 1898 13 Strood Kent

Expected to find parents under another surname as a result of mother's remarriage or such. So I searched for "names beginning with A" through to Z, living with annie gordon skinner -- and got nobody. They were the only ones in the household.

Either the parents were not at home, or that Annie was in charge of a household of younger siblings.

This is the household in 1901 in Strood:

Charles J Skinner 37
Eliza Skinner 35
Emily E Skinner 12
Annie Skinner 5
James C Skinner 3
George D Skinner 1
Joseph Russell 49 (boarder)


The birth cert won't tell you much more than that -- but you might have some luck tracking down the various other siblings and descendants to see whether anyone knows of Annie.

However, there is an Annie Skinner marriage in Strood that might probably rule her out -- to Bearman, 1913, with three births, 1914, 1915 and 1920.


Just following all theories! ;)