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Yep, you are right Janey, that was a marriage I gave, I'm really rubbish at this and shattered hence all the errors. In future I will end my posts with Chris then you will know it's me.

I do have a fair bit on Hamiltons ancestors but most of what you have both given me tonight has been new info for me, and I am very grateful. I just didnt know what you would need as I am not used to asking other people for help.

Chris

Your eyes that is.

How do they feel today?

Oh, Christine, I just don't know.

I POSTED THAT LINK ON PAGE 3.

Did YOU not follow it then??

Are my posts really invisible? You've posted the 1861 *twice* long after I posted it, etc. etc. ...

Time for me to go put drops in my eye, I think.

Just a note that it really would have been quite helpful if you two Christines could have used a sig of some sort to indicate which one of you was posting ...

now follow the link janey

To complete the set


Results for: British Isles
Father: Dennis Gouriet, Mother: Juliana

1. SOPHIA GOURIET
Christening: 19 JUL 1824 Old Church, Saint Pancras, London, England
2. VICTOR FREDERICK GOWRIET
Christening: 21 SEP 1834 Old Church, Saint Pancras, London, England
3. Elizabeth Calkin Gouriet
Christening: 01 MAR 1829 Trinity, St. Marylebone, London, England
4. Louisa Gouriet
Christening: 20 AUG 1845 Holy Trinity, Saint Marylebone, London, England


and per the website I referred to way back:

http://www.calkin.co.uk/calkin068.html

Calkin, Juliana

Seven Children
Gouriet, Dennis Etienne Victor

Juliana Mary Gouriet
Born: 08.10.1821 at St. Marylebone
Died: c. 03.1845 Aged 23, registered in Newington

Maria Gouriet
Born: c. 1823 at St. Marylebone
Died: c. 03.1891 Aged 67, registered in Camberwell

Sophia Gouriet
Born: 22.06.1824 in London
Baptised: 19.07.1824 at Old Church, St. Pancras
Married: c. 09.1850 to ?, registered in St. Olave.

Emily Gouriet
Born: c. 04.1827 at St. Marylebone
Died: c. 12.1840 Aged 13, registered in St. Pancras

Elizabeth Calkin Gouriet
Born: 03.02.1829 at St. Marylebone
Baptised: 01.03.1829 at Holy Trinity, St. Marylebone
Married: c. 03.1846 to William Hebblethwaite (1818-1896), registered in Newington.
Died: c. 06.1900 Aged 71, registered in Tunbridge.

Louisa Gouriet
Born: c. 1832 at St. Marylebone
Married: c. 03.1855 to Clarence Rhind Smith (probably), registered in Newington.

Victor Frederick Gouriet
1861 census has Victor, wife Martha and two children (Julia Elizabeth and Frederick) living at 24, George Street, Pancras.
His occupation is given as "Piano Forte Key Maker".
Born: 22.08.1834 at St. Pancras
Married: c. 09.1855 to Elizabeth Butt (d. 06.1857), registered in Camberwell.
Married: 01.08.1859 to Martha Rogers (b. 1840 - d. 06.1867), at Old Church, St.Pancras.
Married: c. 12.1867 to Elizabeth Gale or Emily Jane Chivers, registered in Islington.
Died: c. 12.1869 Aged 35, registered in Islington.

Chrstine #2, if I can just remove the bumph:


VICTOR FREDERICK GOWRIET
Christening: 21 SEP 1834 Old Church, Saint Pancras, London, England
Father: DENNIS GOWRIET
Mother: JULIANA
Batch No.: C047933


Yes -- that is Dennes Etienne Victor Gouriet, father of Hamilton.
And Victor, Hamilton's older half-brother, as I laid out above.


I'm gathering that Christine #1 really has all this ... this business about Victor George really being Victor Frederick?

It's all feeling a bit redundant.

When looking for someone who's a descendant, I *always* go back a couple of generations myself, and look for fellow descendants of a more distant ancestor. (Have been doing it for years now, trying to find the family of my gr-grfather's sister the actress!) But I think Christine already had ...

http://www.calkin.co.uk/calkin068.html

Christine #1 ...............

"Would this be my Victor ? b1876 q! Holborn, Victor George J,"

That's a marriage.

I make it the second marriage of Victor's father. I think this is Victor's birth:

Births Mar 1874
GOURIET John George **V** Holborn 1b 634

Well, here's the danged icing on the cake. Australian death records are supposed to give parents' names. Whoever reported the death of Victor Gouriet the actor didn't know them. (I'd been meaning to look for these things but had to sort out what his relationship was first.)

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingBirth.cgi


14754/1942
GOURIET VICTOR
67 YRS SYDNEY (that's where parents' names are supposed to go)
SYDNEY

= DOB c1875

There's no marriage for surname Gouriet in NSW, and births are only available up to 1908.

I still suspect those Gouriet-Stokes births are his children.

Really sorry you got into this now ,arn't you?????? Hahaha

Would this be my Victor ? b1876 q! Holborn, Victor George J, he's the only Victor I can find for around the birth year that you have.

this needs thinking about

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


VICTOR FREDERICK GOWRIET Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 21 SEP 1834 Old Church, Saint Pancras, London, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: DENNIS GOWRIET Family
Mother: JULIANA


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C047933

See what I mean?????? Victor G was actually Victor Frederick, O'h hell my head is spinning, why couldn't I have had a nice easy family, but were would the fun be in that?

As far as Victor Gouriet the actor, there's no doubt he's related.

This is him in 1901:

Isabel Gourist 60 - widow, dressmaker
Victor Gourist 26 - born Holborn c1975 - actor
Percy Gourist 24 - salesman
Edith Gourist 9
Civil parish: Hammersmith

Parents' marriage:

Marriages Mar 1876
Baverstock Isabel Holborn 1b 815
Baverstock Isabella Holborn 1b 815
Gouriet Victor George J Holborn 1b 815

but I am danged if I can find Victor's birth (under either surname) or find the family in 1881.

Is Victor Gouriet the actor actually John George "Victor"?

Births Mar 1874
GOURIET John George V Holborn 1b 634


Aha! 1861:

Victor G Gouriet 26 - piano forte key maker
Martha Gouriet 22
>> Isabel was a second wife
Frederick V Gouriet 1 Mo
Julia E Gouriet 5
>> The Julia E you said was aunt to your Gouriets

Now, that doesn't actually make sense.

Julia E's father was Victor George Gouriet c1835.
Hamilton's father was Dennes Etienne Victor Gouriet - c1800ish?

Eeeeeek.


1841

Victor Gouriet 41 c1800 - professor of dancing
Juliana Gouriet 38
Victor Gouriet 6
Sophia Gouriet 16
Elizabeth Gouriet 12
Louisa Gouriet 9
Civil parish: St Pancras


Aargh. Victor Gouriet, professor of dancing in 1841, *IS* Dennes Etienne Victor Gouriet, married first to Juliana and second to Caroline.

Julia E was Dennes Etienne Victor Gouriet's son Victor's daughter.
Hamilton was Dennes Etienne Victor Gouriet's son.

So Julia E was actually, believe it or not, Hamilton's niece. They were the same age, but a generation out. Julia's father was Hamilton's half-brother.

Julia E was actually first cousin to your batch of Gouriet siblings.


And Victor Gouriet the actor was Julia E's half-brother -- time-shifted a generation, by a father's second marriage, just like Hamilton was from Julia E's father.

So there you are. Victor Gouriet the actor was Hamilton's nephew, first cousin to your batch of Gouriet siblings.


Edit: I see Christine # 2 posted some of these records while I was working -- but I hope this ties it all up.

Christine # 1 -- there is no name "change" to GERSCH or any of the other things on these records -- these are all MISTRANSCRIPTIONS by various companies that provide the censuses on line. The name has always been GOURIET.

Hi Christine, you are right it is a very confusing family, can't work out the change from Gouriet to Gersch, but whatever they are almost certainly my family, it gets more confusing all the time.. O'h for a time machine!!!!!!!!!

You delete whatever you think, I honestly haven't a clue as both you and Janey know what you are doing I will leave it up to you if you dont mind...

1841 census - household transcription
Person: GOWRIET, Victor
Address: Randolph Street, Great, St Pancras, Marylebone


GOWRIET, Victor M 41 1800 Middlesex VIEW
GOWRIET, Juliana F 38 1803 Middlesex VIEW
GOWRIET, Victor M 6 1835 Middlesex VIEW
GOWRIET, Sophia F 16 1825 Middlesex VIEW
GOWRIET, Elizabeth F 12 1829 Middlesex VIEW
GOWRIET, Louisa F 9 1832 Middlesex VIEW
WALLES, Charles M 28 1813 VIEW
WALLES, Mary Anne F 25 1816

1861 census - household transcription
Person: GOURIET, Victor G
Address: 24, George Street, Pancras

GOURIET, Victor G Head Married M 26 1835 Piano Forte Key Maker
St Pancras
Middlesex VIEW
GOURIET, Martha Wife Married F 22 1839
Greenwich
Kent VIEW
GOURIET, Frederick Son Unmarried M 1 (18M) 1860
St Pancras
Middlesex VIEW
GOURIET, Julia E Daughter Unmarried F 5 1856
St Pancras
Middlesex

I do not think you have this one.

Welcome back Christine, thanx for all the info,I will have a go at sifting through it all next week if the doc doesn't send me back to work

Janey, Have both Victor D and Geoffrey G but dont know where they fit into my tree yet, will look into the Stokes side though. Bliney, I might be a toff yet. Hahaha

Agnes Any's name was turned around in the 1891c at the Camberwell Workhouse.

It really gets confusing when the names are miss transcribed, but yep Caroline was Hamiltons sister......

Dont know who the James E Bartlett is but Julia is or was my g.grmother.
Yes we were looking for my grandfathers siblings, sorry I got so excited with all the info that was coming that things got a bit out of hand....

Christine # 2, I posted the 1861 from Ancestry on page 2:

1861

Name: Hamilton Gouriet
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Caroline
Where born: Walworth, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Newington St Mary

Caroline Gouriet 33 - born Chelsea (unmarried crossed out, widow written over)
Ettienne Gouriet 13
Frederick P Gouriet 10
Hamilton Gouriet 7


btw, this will be Hamilton's brother Etienne:

Births Mar 1848
GOUR* Etienne Hardin Newington 4 4_1

and brother Frederick:

Births Sep 1850
Gouriet Frederick Peter Newington 4 413