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Yes, Janey

Ann Jones born 1835, Abergwili, Carmarthenshire d.27/08/1923 Melbourne Victoria.

Her parents are: John Jones (1788-1843) and Mary Williams (1792-1846).

Ann's first marriage 16/09/1861 At Aberdare, Glarmorgan to William Thomas (his father Thomas Thomas).
Not sure on WT birthdate but was sure that he died 1870.

Hope this helps.

Bron

So, in 1870 there were 8 William Thomas deaths in Merthyr T. Six of them were under the age of 10 (this kind of search, for a common name in a particular timeframe, always highlights what the child mortality rate was like.) And one was 39 and one was 63.

Broadening it, there was one 23 in early 1869, one 30 in late 1869, one 27 in mid 1871. Again, all the others look too young/too old.

I think William the First was a myth.

Query though. Ann married as Thomas. You need some children's birth records to know her birth surname - do you have that?

Aberdare is in Merthyr Tydfil registry district.

(I never know what's where. I'm in Canada, and people here at GR are forever saying "my ancestor Bob Roberts came from Tiddlywinks near UpsyDownsy, and so I just go to a census and ask for John living in & born in Tiddlywinks, and when I find one I check the record to see what reg dist it's in, and then I know what to search for at FreeBMD.)

Welsh are with English, fortunately:

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

It's pie. Except that the Welsh only have four names and share them around.


There's no Ann Jones + William Thomas marriage in 1861. (Amazingly.) So where does that come from, then? Conversely, there are several dozen Margaret Thomas-s born in MT in 1861-63. (A birth late in a year may be registered the next year.)

I have a feeling Margaret's parents may not have been married and the tale was invented so as not to embarrass her. ;)

Hello Vanessa, And you have given me something that I didn't know, William's middle name Jenkins! THANK YOU.

I'm very new to this and some acronyms, I look at blankly. I will work it out.

So you are saying that John Llewelyn was born in Victoria? or Registered? (Sorry for being repetitive).

I still can't get my head around the children being born here. So to get a death certificate that would actually tell you where they were born, I might have to do that, as the first four children were born in Wales (so I've been told) to a gent with the same name, but Ann only came over once he died. So I wonder if they all just came over here and there was only one William Thomas? Just check the first William Thomas he was born Aberman, Wales ??? died 1870 His father was Thomas Thomas. WT married Ann in Aberdare, Glamorgan 16/09/1861. Then married WJT 19/04/1873 Happy Valley.

Just wondering do you guys have facilities to check the Welsh bdm?? I think this is the only way to find out IF there is or was 2 William Thomas.

Any advice?

And another Big thank you Jayney, Julie and Vanessa I've had a very big spring in my step this morning.

Bron

Janey,

How did you guess LOL

Vanessa

Oh, Vanessa, you're just angling for a big thank you too. ;)

Bronwyn,

Well it is very obvious I didn't scroll and read before I wrote LOL.

Anyway good luck with your research.
Vanessa

Bronwyn,

have found marriage for Ann Thomas to William Jenkins Thomas (b Wales, UK). they married 1873 in Victoria, Australia.

Children of this union were
John Llewelyn b 1865 Happy Valley, Victoria, Australia married Elizabeth Smith 1894
Jemima b 1867 married Henry Louden 1894
Mary Jane b 1869
Sarah Anne b 1874 married Frederick William Coare 1899
Evan b 1877 d 1877 aged 1 day
William Eleazar b 1877
David Lewis b 1880

That is all I have found at this point will keep looking for you and let you know what else I come up with.

Regards
Vanessa
Victoria, Australia

And just for you, here's something hasn't occurred to me before.

The memorial pages at the Canadian Virtual War Memorial have more info than the CWGC pages do - they let you see a plot of where a grave is. Problem is, there are no direct links to the individual cemeteries; you have to go through an individual's page, for which you have to know a name. So I did a site search, found someone buried there, and clicked from his page to the cemetery link.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=search

http://www.virtualmemorial.gc.ca/cm_image/ACF1E3.gif

You can find II H there, but I don't know about the 10.

And then google images finds cemetery pics, and I think your fellow's grave would be about midway down on the left in this on (the picture is upside down from the plan):

http://www.ww1cemeteries.com/ww1frenchcemeteries/adelaide.htm

Ah, the same cemetery plan is there too. So now I've learned and will remember the easy way:

http://www.ww1cemeteries.com/

(My guy, my mum's father's eldest brother, unmarried, is in Etaples cemetery, and when my brother took her to France a couple of years ago -- I'd taken her to England a few years earlier -- they visited the grave.)

Yes, who's a clever girl, then. ;) You thanked me, I figured I should do something to earn it! (If only a few of our other members would read and learn the lesson ... but then, being rude sometimes also drives me to the extra effort, just as a way of saying nyah nyah.)

For birth registrations - they have to be registered where they occur. Barring impossibility of some sort - but certainly the births of children born in Wales would definitely not be registered in Australia. So they weren't born in Wales. ;)

Thomas Lewis may have died in infancy or childhood. The recycling of Lewis for David suggests maybe.

I also meant to mention - the reason you couldn't get in the other day was that this horrible, horrible website was on the fritz again, and anybody who did get a reply to a complaint (I sent 5 and have no replies so far) was told there had been no other complaints. Well, that works on the first complaint. It doesn't work when a bunch of people know for a fact that a bunch of other people have also complained!

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1172743

fyi. You'll want to change the .co.uk to .au.com I expect.

Now, if only I knew what history I had just rewritten ... ! Explain, if you like. ;)

OH Janey!!!! You are a clever girl! And so are you Julie. This is the piece that will be the cletcher. I'm a bit excited!!!! And I can rewrite history!!!

I LOVE YOU Janey! and you Julie!!!

I'm just beside myself. I'll have to write again when I've composed myself!

Hi Julie

Thanks for that. I totally agree with your info on the family but have came to a stand still and need to clarify, some info.

1. Why wasn't Margaret included in the registration as she is the eldest and the first four children were born in Wales, wouldn't they be registered in Wales?
2. I never knew about a Thomas Lewis, where was he born?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, the online birth info is just where they were registered and a copy of the cert has the exact location of birth?

Will have to buy a cert to clarify, as If I want to rewrite the family history I'll have to be correct.

Bron

But now you can thank me.

I wondered whether David hadn't served with an Australian unit.


Name: THOMAS
Initials: D L
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers
Unit Text: 253rd Field Coy.
Age: 37
>>> Date of Death: 30/03/1918
>>> Additional information: Son of William and Ann Thomas, of Happy Valley, Victoria, Australia.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: II. H. 10.
Cemetery: ADELAIDE CEMETERY, VILLERS-BRETONNEUX


http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=26218

Thank me for nada. ;) (Although it was nice of you to do it!)

Julie's your go-to woman here. You are in capable hands!

If you are wanting to buy certificates to verify the infomation go to...

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria

WOW!!!! This is awesome, thank you Julie & Janey, I'll just have to process all of the info but first so the family story goes. Ann nee Jones married William Thomas in Glamorgan had the first four children in Wales. William Thomas (father) died, and Ann came over to Australia with her four children as she had 2 sister and a brother over here (Australia) and she married another William Thomas but middle name started with a J (William J Thomas) and then they had the next four children: Sarah, William, Evan and David.

Now this is the confusing part. I didn't know any middle names until your first note, then I checked his war records and David Henry's brother was John and had a Sister Mary, mother Ann and William Thomas but one of the letters stated by John Edward Thomas that the parent had died both in 1920, which isn't the case of my David Thomas. So, maybe David Henry Thomas the WWI Vet who died in France isn't my relation and coincidental had very similar details. As I know Jemima married Louden and John Thomas married Elizabeth nee Smith and had two children William and Mavis. So which your second lot of info makes more sense.

How would I confirm this??

Great Job Julie, I'm very impressed thank you so much you have really helped me alot.

You also mention a Thomas Lewis b. 1872, so he must of died?? And I wonder why they were registered in Australia instead of Wales??

Bron

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about David Lewis Thomas
Name: David Lewis Thomas
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1903
State: Victoria
District: Ballaarat
Subdistrict: Ballaarat West
OCCUPATION .. Student
ADDRESS .. (52) Sebastopol St.
with William Jenkyn, Driver
Ann, h/d
Margaret, h/d

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about William Eleazer Thomas
Name: William Eleazer Thomas
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1936
State: Victoria
District: Balaclava
Subdistrict: Caulfield
ADDRESS .. 26 Venus St., Elsternwick
No Occupation
with Margaret, h/d

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about William Thomas Louden
Name: William Thomas Louden
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1919
State: Victoria
District: Wannon
Subdistrict: Casterton
OCCUPATION .. Driver
ADDRESS .. Henty St., Casterton
with Frances Florence, h/d

Name: William Thomas Louden
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1924
State: Victoria
District: Wannon
Subdistrict: Casterton
OCCUPATION .. Driver
ADDRESS .. Jackson St., Casterton
with Frances Florence, h/d

Name: William Thomas Louden
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1931 <<< & 1936
State: Victoria
District: Wannon
Subdistrict: Casterton
OCCUPATION .. Driver
ADDRESS .. Murray St., Casterton
with Frances Florence, h/d