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Sorry Ian

Didn't mean to - but when it's not clear like this - I tend to start thinking of all other possibilities!!

Jill

hahaha Mrs Grumpy...you just muddling my head even more heehee

not sure about that, George is listed as her father on marriage certificate but then i guess that doesnt mean anything these days!!!

Just to point out Paddington is actually where Alice and George are living in 1901 aswell?

Is it possible that Lena is Alice's daughter but not George's daughter? Maybe they started living together just before the 1901?

Sorry - not trying to muddy the waters, just thinking aloud ...

Jill

hmmm strange no father either so possible i guess otherwise that would make 2 Georges missing?

Charles might have been Alice's son and just took the surname Ratcliff(e).

Jill

1901
Name: Dudley Ratcliff
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Tottenham, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Paddington
Sub-registration district: St Mary, Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 430
Household Members: Name Age
Emma Ratcliff 44
Ethel Ratcliff 19
Dudley Ratcliff 16
Dagmar Ratcliff 14
Clarence Ratcliff 13
Orlando Ratcliff 10
Gladys Ratcliff 8
Yomakawa Ruirpoo 37
Walter E Challeger 36 - brother
Rudolph N Mason 26
Harry E Debenham 32
George A Phillipps 27



A Challenger living with the family


She is shown as married !!!!!

Well, here's Orlando - so his birth cert would give maybe a bit more info ...

Births Jun 1891 (>99%)
Ratcliff Orlando Claude Paddington 1a 5 Scan available - click to view

Jill

I see that one Glitter baby but im just not sure first of all wheres Charles he should have been born by then? also Lena would have been born 1891/92 could he really have left all those children with Emma uped and left and had another child soon after?
Im soo confused?!

Just going to see if Emma and the kids appear in 1901

FreeBMD is not helping with the possible Lena birth in Brighton - "heavy workload"

Jill

Possible George and Emma marriage?

Marriages Mar 1881 (>99%)
CHALLENGER Emma Isabel Kensington 1a 145 Scan available - click to view
Godden Frederick Kensington 1a 145
HANCOCK Lydia Kensington 1a 145 Scan available - click to view
RATCLIFFE George Richard Kensington 1a 145 Scan available - click to view



It's possible that he and Alice were never married ...

Jill

Well I'm stumped. No sign of a George and Alice marriage at all.

Am now waiting for FreeBMD to see if there are any Lenas born in that timeframe in Brighton.

Jill

1891

Name: George Ratcliffe
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Lewisham, Kent, England

Civil parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Marks
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Paddington
Sub-registration district: St Mary Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Ratcliffe 32
Emma Ratcliffe 34 St Pancras
Ethel M Ratcliffe 9 Deptford
Stella L D Ratcliffe 8 Tottenham
Dudley Ratcliffe 6 Tottenham
Dagmar Ratcliffe 4 Tottenham
Clarence Ratcliffe 3 Marylebone
Conway Ratcliffe 2 Marylebone
Orlando Ratcliffe 6/12 Paddington



Strange he has occupation of accountants clerk

Perhaps he left his wife and Charles the son on 1901 is acutually the son of Alice

Yes i looked at 1911 (not full census, but a search) i found what would appear as Lena, Charles and Alice but no George

Glitter i can see why they have done that a tick has been put in a very awkward place on the original that makes it look like 19 instead of 9

1901
Name: Lena Ratcliff
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George R
Mother's Name: Alice
Gender: Female
Where born: Brighton, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark Hamilton Terrace Marylebone
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Paddington
Sub-registration district: St Mary, Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
George R Ratcliff 40 Lewisham - commercial clerk
Alice Ratcliff 38 Chelmsford
Charles Ratcliff 12 Kilburn
Lena Ratcliff 19



Age 10 years out but 9 on image

Have you found any of them in the 1911?

Have you checked RaDcliff(e) as a variant?

Jill

My grt grandmother was called Lena Harrington (maiden name= Ratcliff/Ratcliffe)

We believe she was born Brighton, and i have found her on the 1901 census which would confirm this...
On the 1901 census she is recorded as Lena Ratcliff born Brighton abt 1892 head of house George R Ratcliff, wife Alice Ratcliff, and a brother named Charles

I have Lena's marriage certificate which confirms her fathers name as George Ratcliff a clerk.

i cannot find George or Charles on the 1891 census or previous census's, nor can i confirm a marriage to Alice
Anyone have any ideas?