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Hi, I have posted before about George Firmin but still drawing total blanks wherever I look so any help or leads would be great.

I cannot get any further back on my tree on this, my paternal side and its driving me up the wall! I would love to find a marriage cert for them so I could trace his parents but with typos on names and variations in dates/ages etc I am losing the will to live.

The following is all the info I have much of which was found with the help of Lindsey :O)

1891 address 51 Marcia Road

1891 England Census TYPOS galore again
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Emina
Gender: Female
Where born: Newington, London, England

Civil Parish: St George The Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
County/Island: London

Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Kent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur A Firmin 18
Emina Firmin 42
Emma M Firmin 11
George Firmin 44
George H Firmin 21
John E V Firmin 3
Mary A T Firmin 5
Robert E Firmin 8
Rose W V Firmin 3 H V
William L Firmin 19
Franklin Sambeh 19


1881 Census 59 Ripley Street
Geo.H. FIRMIN Son Male 11 Newington St Geo Scholar
Wm.T. FIRMIN Son Male 8 Newington St Geo Scholar
Arthur A. FIRMIN Son Male 3 Newington St Geo
Emma M. FIRMIN Daur Female 1 Newington St Geo

1871 badly spelt or transcribed from records

1871 England Census
about George Fermin
Name: George Fermin
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Tema
Gender: Male
Where born: Essex, England
Civil Parish: St Mary Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: St John Walworth and St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England
Disability: View Image
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Trinity Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 399
Household Members: Name Age
George Fermin 24
George Fermin 1 5 months
Tema Fermin 23

Deaths Sep 1900 (>99%)
FIRMIN George 50 Camberwell 1d 478

more than likely George as at 1901 census twins are in care and Jemima is Head of Household

1911 Census Jemima is widow still with John,Rose,Alfred and a grandson Arthur George Best age 13.

19 Ledbury Street.

his POB Brentwood maybe Stratford Essex

again any help would be superb TY

Jan X

How does this look for George with his parents?? The father George Senior is a Lighting Contracter on the Railways and they are living in Somerset but George senior was born in London Middx.

1851 England Census
about George Firmin
Name: George Firmin
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Lyncombe and Widcome
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street Address: St Marks Place, Bath

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lyncombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 1g
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 163
Household Members: Name Age
George Firmin 31
Emily Firmin 24
John Firmin 5
George Firmin 4
Osborne Firmin 2
Emily Firmin 1
Emma Chattle 26 Visitor
Alice Shram 26

Hi thanks for that, unfortunately I have 2 census returns which both state he was born in Essex. One gives Stratford Essex the other Brentwood Essex :o/ So I dont think this is him :o(

The farther a person got from their place of birth, in time and space, the more general their birth place was likely to be on a census return.

My grx2 grfather in Cornwall stated Tamerton Folliat, Devon, in 1851: correct, I have his baptism details. In 1861, when he was in London, it was East Stonehouse, Devon. By 1871, it was Devonport.

To a non-Londoner, the whole metropolitan region might well be "London", and a person might have found it easier just to say they came from London.

So I wouldn't rule out that George out of hand!

What about this one? Not sure about the Marylebone bit though...wrong end of London I think...


1861 England Census
about Geo Firmin
Name: Geo Firmin
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Josiah
Mother's Name: May A
Gender: Male
Where born: Stratford, Essex, England

Civil parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: All Souls
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 135
Household Members:
Name Age
Josiah Firmin 45
May A Firmin 46
Wm Firmin 14
Geo Firmin 11

View
Original
Record

View original image
Vi

For ref, this is them in 1871?


George Fermin 24 - born: Essex, England
Tema Fermin 23 - born: Southwark
George Fermin 1 5 months
Civil parish: St Mary Newington
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark

:o) Thanks for that, I think I have come across that record and kept it in mind but cannot say 100% that it is him... this is why I would like to find the marriage details and order a certificate that would confirm (hopefully) his parentage. It IS the only one I have found that looks like it may be vaguely correct. Ive seen a few other "Georges" but in later census returns they are still in Essex whereas mins def moved :o)

1861 - edit - sorry, typo! * 1851 *

Name: George Ferinia
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Toppesfield, Essex, England

Civil parish: Toppesfield
County/Island: Essex

William Ferinia 35
Sarah Ferinia 40
Edward Ferinia 7
George Ferinia 4


That's them, I'd say - image reads as Firmin once you know what you're looking for.

Left this out:

Registration district: Halstead

So this would indeed be him, whom I'd been looking at before:

Births Sep 1846
Firmin George Halstead 12 121

There is still a George Firmin in Halstead after mine is moved away and married to Jemima :o/ so again not sure about if this is him. What I need to find is their marriage details................

Interestingly, in 1861, that George Firmin is no longer with his father:

William Firmin 45
Edward Firmin 17
Civil parish: Toppesfield


In 1881, George was an engine fitter. Any chance he learned his trade in the navy?

Name: George Ferman Boy
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Apprentice
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitehaven, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Vessels
Town: Whitehaven
County/Island: Cumberland


The place of birth could easily have been just a mindless copy of all the others on the page.

Oh no! And he looked so promising.

Throwing them out without tracing them backward and forward, so far. ;)


There is no marriage in the GRO, unless it's massively mistranscribed.

No George to Jemima, no F*n to Davis, etc.

Jemima was a little young to have been previously married (George too), but it's always a possibility -- she married him under another surname ... or they just plain never married.

Do you have her in censuses before marriage?

Well........... to be honest not even got confirmation that her surname WAS Davis.....this was gleaned from a cousin and never been able to confirm due to lack of cert and not sure how her son found the info he did?

on FamilySearch there are 2 Jemima Davis born about the right time same place even christened at same Church........ a while ago I went to Kew for tracing other info but while there had a quick look for George Firmin marriages in 1868 1869 and 1870 to no avail.......it really is frustrating!!! It is as if he didnt exist prior to the census returns LOLOL

and it has crossed my mind that they maybe never actually "married"

Jan - you said you had posted before about this. I searched for the name George Firmin and found only a thread in which you had no replies. Did you delete an earlier thread?

I really really recommend against doing that. For us in this thread, we have no way of knowing whether any of the avenues we're exploring have been looked at before, if the traces are gone.

Oh, okay ... so we don't even know that we're looking for the right bride, although you stated that was her name.

Her name can easiliy be got from the birth certificate of one of her children, which was what I assumed you had.


There are all sorts of reasons why he might be impossible to find in censuses. Mistranscription is the obvious one. But another very common one would be that his father died and his mother remarried and he is hiding under a stepfather's surname -- or -- that Firmin was actually a stepfather's surname ... and all the other various possibilities, like he was registered under his mother's surname if the parents were unmarried ...

nope that was the thread about a year ago 6/2008 and no-one ever replied............so thought Id give it another go... I have always thought my cousins info was correct, but as now I cannot trace anything am starting to wonder and will have to get back to her to check

:o)

This family is quite mysterious......I've been trying to find the childens' birth details to verify the mother's maiden name and not having much luck.

However, I think this could be Emma:

Births Dec 1879 (>99%)
Firmin Emma Maria St. Saviour 1d 113 Scan available - click to view

Do you have his kids' birth reg info?

Unfortunately I have to run now ... off to have the second cat euthanised in two weeks ... feline leukemia, it seems. :(

And Mary:

Births Sep 1884 (>99%)
Firmin Mary Ann T St. Saviour 1d 104 Scan available - click to view

And John:

Births Sep 1887 (>99%)
FIRMIN John Edward V St.Saviour 1d 102 Scan available - click to view